@SD69
I just read the minutes. Some of the things discussed there, we have discussed before (the two of us) here.
I hope writing the suggestion in a light tone does not diminish its value, otherwise I may have to use a more formal one whenever I have something to say.

@marxian, thanks for the link.

Thanks for picking up all the important topics, SD69. At least in their "promises" it looks ok - we will see, how it ends in practice.

Ho ever, one thing rised my blood-pressure significantly - Maemo, please read from:
http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclo...01-12T16:05:05
...to the end.

Not to mention sophism and lack of respect shown in:
...they're basically treating Maemo org - through it's representatives - as puppets, that don't even need to be informed - nor asked - if they accept such significant thing as merging with meego/harmattan.

Of course Nokia representatives are also showing ignorance - denying to see significant differences between Maemo and Harmattan world - but, it's not the problem, ignorance is synonym of Nokia's anyway for a long time. The thing is, that they implicit rights to decide about our infrastructure, just because they host servers! I don't want to sound too "revolutionary", but it's probably cheapest sold independence in software world.

Considering size of our community, hosting services for all our infrastructure, would be amount of 100-150 bucks. Not to mention other (many times, great and worth checking) ideas from this thread, like Debian infrastructure etc. IMO, if Nokia thing they can drop harmattan mess on us, just because they provide such "services", we should prepare a nice "surprise" for them.

I don't want to play a conspiracy theories either, but this proposed "merge" also seems to be targeted @ [b]sucking developers[/b[ to Harmattan (and, possibly, some of them later to WinSh|tPhone, yet it's harder due to framework differencies), which would be nice continuation of damned N950 project.

Of course no one from Nokia asked us what we think about it (neither they acknowledged during last meeting, that they *should* ask), but IMO, we don't need to ask them either - so, as for me, merge is a no-go.

/Estel

it is getting even worse sadly to say and it seems the gap is growing between TMO and Nokia.
Just thought i would pop in and have a look at the current situation as not been on for quite some time, good luck everyone hope all your dreams come true.... mine didn't sad'ly but never mind eh.

Hello Texrat hope your still on top of it these days

It had been previously agreed to use the Council blog as notification of such things. Burying posts in a thread on TMO - even one as on-topic as this one - isn't very inclusive.

If you want a discussion of getting more volunteers, you need people to be able to see the requests and the topic.

Well volunteered. You are, however, wrong. There are two things needed:

1. Money
2. Time

From those you can get everything - and migrate everything from *.maemo.org to $SOMEWHEREELSE.

I suggest not approaching people who are paying the bills as part of some kind of evil conspiracy. That's not going to give a good working relationship.

Can you explain how posting things in this thread as well as elsewhere would constitute burying them?

I'll gladly do, as soon as people paying the bills will start to treat us seriously.

Just re-read council logs. It's perfectly seen - in every line - that they don't have a clue about things they're saying. Heck, they event were not aware of momcilo being Council member!

If You ask me, community projects around Maemo got now biggest momentum ever - of course, it's handbraked by "our friends" from Nokia, if not only by "resolving" bugs in repos for 6 months (still without success). Look at propositions they have for us - lets report problems once a month. I already feel the result - *maybe* fixing maintainership/other problems once per 3 months. It's totally unacceptable for dynamic projects like CSSU.

It's really so hard to give Council members technical privileges to chose volunteer from Community, that would be able to approve/reject maintainership requests, if original maintainers are not reachable?

It's just an example. They're repeating old promises and empty words over and over again, yet this time, they don't even *try* to play like they're respecting us (see negating Council mandate). As long as "paying the bills" by Nokia got side-effect of obstructing flagship Community projects, it's a loss, not a gain
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All after all, take no offense Jaffa, but this time I don't see much reason behind Your post - I may be wrong, but it seems as an attempt to just "handbrake" current trend, without proposing any alternative solution.

/Estel

I could live with a monthly donation of $10 or so if that would mean not having to cope with that BS played on "us" any longer. If no one else (company) would sponsor a server and let people freely administer.

I just got confirmation from joerg_rw, that if - for some reasons - hosting our infrastructure @ Debian would fail, he's willing to sponsor a hosting for few months, as soon as wee get sysadmin that could actually set up the mirror repos, and of course packages maintainers that would like to use this mirrored repositories.

AFAIK, CSSU and kernel-power would be more than happy to "jailbreak" from Nokia maintained repos. I can just suppose, that other maintainers too

/Estel

// Edit

As for donations, I'm absolutely sure that getting enough amount of money to host our (relatively small) community is trivial, in any case. After setting up stable infrastructure (hammering bugs etc), we can think about funraising for "bigger" things to community benefit 9hardware projects, that were never possible due to relationship with Nokia - but, first things first.

@Estel: Ok. So what are the next steps then? I'm a bit at a loss here; having administered only ClearCase / SVN repositories, not Git or something else.

Following the discussion on IRC today:
http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ssu-irclog/%2...01-15T21:25:13
...mirroring has been started for now, pre-alpha 0.01 version of roadmap looks like:
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Roadmap

1. Mirroring CSSU to independent hosting, where CSSU team got all privileges required to maintain it - started, progressing
1.a Preparing some magic, that will made CSSU sitting in 'official' Nokia controlled repos, into updating from *our* repos, without need to do it manually. So, CSSU in Nokia's repos would actually switch to mirroring our repos - started, being worked on

2. When Community Kernel (future version(s) of kernel-power) will be ready for prime time, it's going to be uploaded into our repos. CSSU will become dependent on Community Kernel.

3. After getting stable infrastructure for CSSU and Community Kernel, deciding if mirroring entire extras is needed. Probably would require (very)small fund-raising. Depends on both atmosphere and (more importantly) effects of our collaboration with Nokia's "partners".

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4? In case of 3. required and DONE, negotiations with Nokia about state of Nokia's 'closed source things' repos (SSU, etc) and Maemo name.
4?.a. Meanwhile, contest for temporal/eternal name for project. in Nokians not willing to pass Maemo name to us, name becomes 'eternal'.
4? b. Steady registering legally-correct foundation.
4? c. Regular fundraising, for bigger community projects, that were not possible due to partnership with Nokia (designing decent hardware?)

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Of course, it's just my proposition for roadmap. Suggestions warmly welcome.

/Estel