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Cue	2012-04-28 , 21:19
Posts: 840 \| Thanked: 823 times \| Joined on Nov 2009	#941

Originally Posted by szopin

Cool you ask for FACTS when you link to blogspam. So many FACTS were posted here (like Tomi Ahonen: Nokia store was great - yup every developer loved to test and provide fixes for 20 or so symbian devices vs 1 iPhone; blog said so = FACT) that all the CEOs are running scared. OPINIONS of fanatics would be a better label. Sorry danramos.

Even though there are pessimists and optimist who take it too far there is no denying the fact that Nokia are doing very poorly.

	qgil	2012-04-28 , 23:20
	Posts: 3,105 \| Thanked: 11,088 times \| Joined on Jul 2007 @ Mountain View (CA, USA)	#942

Originally Posted by danramos

The irony here is that for every ONE of those articles you posted, there are a LOT more to contradict the point you're trying to make by posting it.

Since when it's an irony to add different viewpoints to a discussion? Those 4 links come from different sources and have different argumentations. I found them interesting and shared them here. Is that bad?

What's wrong about discussing Nokia platforms and products competitiveness (i.e. Lumia / Windows Phone--your company adopted it, we never asked for it) in a thread about Nokia stock and how it's performing?

I have tried to explain here why I believe it's wrong to grow more posts on Lumia and Windows Phone out of the Competitors subforum (being Off-Topic an alternative). As many users have reminded, this is maemo.org. Your opinion is welcome in that thread.

So really, my problem is less about discussing Nokia products and platforms in this thread, and more about the location of this thread under General. I'll post the couple of links below and these will be the last Lumia / WP related posts I'll have out of Competitors / Off-Topic. You are invited to do the same.

It's pretty naive to show up in a thread about Nokia stock and try to convince people it's doing just fine under the current circumstances.

I'm not a financial advisor. I'm not trying to convince you. I just posted 4 links that I still believe contribute to this thread. On a Saturday morning and because I actually find (the on-topic posts of) this thread interesting. You don't like them? Fine, no need to throw such a reply.

I'm not asking for your opinion or personal assessments, just facts--especially since you're outright dismissing ours.

What facts am I dismissing? Again, I just posted 4 links. I have read all the rest, it's just that it's not my style to reply to every single thing, post funny images, etc. I try to post whenever there is something new to add.

The only facts about stock prices are... the stock prices. If I would have facts about future stock trends then probably I would have another job. What else?

One fact is that Lumia 900 is selling well in Amazon and it is getting very good reviews from US customers: Black, Cyan. Taking into account the customers reviews on the Lumia 710 and Lumia 800 one can see a trend. Amazon is considered an interesting barometer on user reception and sales at a wider scale.

Another fact is that the big majority of Lumia 900 reviews do praise the product. I guess someone like Steve Wozniak can't be considered a new smartphone user or a Nokia fanatic, and he also seems to like it. The bottomline: Lumias are good products, and their first steps in a very competitive market are actually promising.

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specc	2012-04-28 , 23:27
Posts: 322 \| Thanked: 218 times \| Joined on Feb 2012	#943

Originally Posted by qgil

I would ask "Which proof are you referring to?" and I would post a couple more links, but then we would deviate from the topic of this thread.

What about discussing Lumia / Windows Phone competitiveness in the Competitors forum?

Here for instance. Hard news, no blogosphere hope/wish/feel just to attract readers or misplaced company/OS/brand/[whatever] loyalty:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/0...83G08Z20120417
Nokia Lumia phones are not competitive against Android and iPhone. For Nokia stock to go up, their products has to be competitive in the market. Symbian phones are in free fall, and Maemo/MeeGo has never been competitive.

One thing that would improve the situation, but by no mean fix it, is for Nokia to confirm that Lumia will be upgradeable to WP8. However, the only real hope for Nokia right now is that WP8 will enable them to make phones that can compete with top of the line Androids, like the HTC One X and SGSII/III. Lumia 900 is way behind those phones, but with the same price tag.

Lumia gives the user a nice phone with a nice user experience. That is not the issue. The issue is whether that niceness is relevant in the current market, the answer is NO! That NO is coming from both end users and operators. End users don't buy them and operators don't want them.

	danramos	2012-04-29 , 01:58
	Posts: 4,672 \| Thanked: 5,455 times \| Joined on Jul 2008 @ Springfield, MA, USA	#944

Originally Posted by szopin

Cool you ask for FACTS when you link to blogspam. So many FACTS were posted here (like Tomi Ahonen: Nokia store was great - yup every developer loved to test and provide fixes for 20 or so symbian devices vs 1 iPhone; blog said so = FACT) that all the CEOs are running scared. OPINIONS of fanatics would be a better label. Sorry danramos.

COOL! I added that as a 'by the way' aside to the article I quoted ABOVE it as the factual article. Very cool of you to make such a cool mistake! VERY cool to some, I'm sure. Cool cool.

Sorry szopin.

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Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR

	ibrakalifa	2012-04-29 , 03:29
	Posts: 1,583 \| Thanked: 1,203 times \| Joined on Dec 2011 @ Everywhere	#945

if nokia doing pretty well then why samsung can overtake nokia? LoL, believe it or not, wp is a fail, huge fail

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Tronic	2012-04-29 , 03:39
Posts: 2 \| Thanked: 2 times \| Joined on Apr 2012	#946

Originally Posted by Rauha

Perhaps not quite on-topic, but since this seems to be mostly about Nokia's amazing destruction anyway...

I was today at Espoo horse race track. My amazement was quite high when I suddenly saw OPK appear on the track and being interviewed. It turns out that he owns many horses and one of them just made him 50 000 euros by simply running around the track fast.

Now if anything, I'll take that as a rather good example about the state of western society. Ruin truly unique corporation with century and half of tradition and earn a fortune by doing it. So, while the canadian idiot is busy destroying the ashes left by OPK, the man himself is busy having "hobbies", as he described it on that interview on track, that include having stable full of elite bred horses, employing brilliant horse trainer, stable boys, jockey and a race team manager. How I wish that my failures paid off like that.

Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo hasn't been Nokia CEO since 2010, when Elop started. He has probably made mistakes but nothing in the magnitude of Elop. Even then, I don't see what does him having hobbies now have to do with Nokia.

Jorma Ollila is also leaving Nokia now and it appears that he didn't have any real power over the company in years. Ollila was about to choose Vanjoki as the CEO but American investors told him to choose Elop or otherwise they would change the chairman.

I bet that Siilasmaa won't do any better. Finns are scarce in the board already, and apparently the ownership of the company has been slipping more and more to the USA.

	danramos	2012-04-29 , 03:50
	Posts: 4,672 \| Thanked: 5,455 times \| Joined on Jul 2008 @ Springfield, MA, USA	#947

Originally Posted by Tronic

Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo hasn't been Nokia CEO since 2010, when Elop started. He has probably made mistakes but nothing in the magnitude of Elop. Even then, I don't see what does him having hobbies now have to do with Nokia.

Jorma Ollila is also leaving Nokia now and it appears that he didn't have any real power over the company in years. Ollila was about to choose Vanjoki as the CEO but American investors told him to choose Elop or otherwise they would change the chairman.

I bet that Siilasmaa won't do any better. Finns are scarce in the board already, and apparently the ownership of the company has been slipping more and more to the USA.

I think the implication is that he started this suicidal nosedive into failure. Sure, Elop literally ACCELERATED it to fatal levels, but OPK was the one that put the company in a position of needing a new CEO. Now, he's enjoying the benefits of a wonderful golden parachute while Nokia, Finland and much of the workforce suffers for his decisions that got us to this point. I'm sure the workforce that has been stuck without a job or means to get by would LOVE to know that their former CEO absolutely ADORES taking care of horses. He certainly didn't seem interested in taking care of customers or his responsibilities with the company.

SamGan	2012-04-29 , 05:04
Posts: 648 \| Thanked: 650 times \| Joined on Oct 2011	#948

Originally Posted by specc

One thing that would improve the situation, but by no mean fix it, is for Nokia to confirm that Lumia will be upgradeable to WP8.

This is not Nokia's call. They are a contract manufacturer for Microsoft now.

Lumiaman	2012-04-29 , 05:09
Guest \| Posts: n/a \| Thanked: 0 times \| Joined on	#949

Elop is an incidental traveler. N9 beta feel is not Elop's fault. Nokia had at least 2 years to optimize the software, if not longer. You would think that the device that follows N900 would be better optimized. Its a sign of lazy software engineering and insufficient resources.

gerbick	2012-04-29 , 06:11
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I'm still trying to find a broker that would get me a printed stock certificate without costing me more for that than it would for almost 50 Nokia stock.