In that they awarded themselves the devices? I would state that there was in effect a game of collusionary prisoners dilemma. Despite not being able to vote for themselves, by being able to vote for each other their award was assured.

In the past the council have been issued devices by Nokia. This time it should have been announced that the devices were being issued to the council leaving the rest for the CA. Although, do you honestly believe there would have been no dissent in this case?

The devices came with the proviso from Nokia that the council were to choose the recipients. If the council were not allowed to enter the awards then how could they possibly be awarded one? It seems you are arguing that the council should have been non-eligible for a community award?

Being a Councillor is very time consuming and will be very tome consuming considering what tasks they are now facing. Time is precious. To plow your personal off time into something for nothing else than the satisfaction of being involved is quite remarkable. Perhaps you are a student or unemployed? I cannot say perhaps you do not understand how precious free time is around a full time job.

The mailing list has been the forum for council discussion since forever. Maybe some 5 years or so. As Woody has stated, he cannot cram it down your throats any harder. Unless you have been a member for less than a month, you KNEW about the community awards. If you did not then you are very much into the community.

Why would it be reversed? The councillors spent over 5 hours coming up with that list. 5 hours. That is about 1 entire day of offtime for me. For me that has to include family time, motorbike time, eating time and personal time. 5 hours. At minimum wage in the UK that is £35 or 44 euro. Furthermore the group of persons who were dis-agreeing with the results were more concerned with condemning the procedure.

Good for Woody.

We have established that they are deserving of a device, while it is clear they appeared to throw their lot in with everyone else their being awarded was assured. There was no doubt about that. The time to voice concern was before the competition. Do you want a council member to come to this thread and say 'yes I knew I would win a device as the other members of the council would win'. The only mistake I see here is them labelling their entries as entries and not just claiming their awards. However hindsight is 20/20.

Your use of the pronoun is inappropriate. They did not win an award. Simple as that. Perhaps when you see that they are not owed a device you will come to accept that is no injustice in this point.

This was not a coding competition. Just because they are devs does not make them super eligible right away. In fact I would like to think this competition had a slight bias towards non-coders, the people who can never win the various coding competitions.

INABT not winning does seem a little controversial. His apparent ace in the hole being the inception program that he helped write, is an important stepping stone to conquering aegis.

eyes in my opinion is not so controversial. Would you want a CA for lumiaman if he managed to port WP7 to the N9? Would that be contributing to the community? In fact ammyt is more involved in the community WRT nitroid than eyes. This is not to belittle eyes achievements. It would take me a year or two to get to the level required to port android to a new device, especially one as well documented as the maemos

Time to stop beating around the bush. You cannot make blanket statements like this in support of your argument. Who are you claiming does not deserve a device?

Here you are relying on the 'they need a device in order to develop their projects' argument. AFAIK both INABT and eyes have N9s. This will allow them to develop for the ONLY production Harmattan device in existence. No, I do not except that the N950 keyboard and some magic unnameable features make it a superior development device for Harmattan. Also, SSH works fine. My old embedded systems lecturer used to tell us the only thing you need to debug code is an LED. He was mostly right. This is a moot point. The N950s status as a development device is now void considering the N9 is available.

The real point that you are not prepared to admit here (and I do not blame you, no one wants to be judged as materialistic.) is that they WANT an N950 because of what it is. It is a freaking N950. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.

This doesn’t even make any sense. It is insulting to award devices for things people have done as oppose to things they claim they will do?

I can only assume you are referring to 2 posts. 1 by myself and 1 by FMG. My own post was a joke, a dig, a troll spoon at the outrage and butthurt that was going down in that thread. Also, why should I develop for Harmattan? These are community awards not kits supplied in exchange for development. If you want to complain about that, look up the first list of submissions for the N950 device program. Those devices are on loan meaning Nokia can recall them and re-distribute them to appropriate developers as need be. Have you approached Nokia about getting a development N950? The fact is however you do not need an N950 for development for Harmattan you need an N9. This renders all arguments about dev-kit void.

As for FMG well, I think he has earned his place in maemo Valhalla and can pretty much say whatever the F he wants. Whether you agree with it or not is non-consequential. Also, awards for past achievements.

Do you honestly believe that supplying two devices that do not add to eyes and INABT ability to code for a platform will in any way influence what happens in 6 months? No. What happens in 6 months is going to be decided to how hard the council work and to a lesser extent how much of YOUR offtime you are prepared to donate.

It is unfair to award members of the community for all their time and effort over the years? Endless little things are irrelevant in comparison to two giant hacks?(ask your wife!) Cheers buddy.

Why not? 'conflict if interest' is not an answer. Have they not earned them? What decision precluded them from allocating the devices to themselves?

Why? What makes them less deserving of an award? what makes SD69 so deserving?

There was no evasion. The answer was stated ad-nausiem. The only evasion was not listing the merits and demerits of the entrants. Something I am glad off. If your ego cannot accept not winning a prize how are you going to react to the internal pain that comes with a list of your failings?

Do not be so naive; apologies need to come from both sides.

While the behaviour by some of the council members was inappropriate both sides are as guilty as each other. You do not come into an argument swinging your dick about and not expect to get punched in the nuts.

Do not worry though, behaviours have been noted, words shall be had.

And you are wondering why people are not taking you seriously? These are guys who are volunteers, not sleazebag speakeasy politicians. They signed up for the job before the CA was announced.

You are right, that was a weak argument and it has strengthened my doubts about the greed of the council.

…ad-nausiem

welcome to the 'mentalist traceur club'!

Albeit in a very biased fashion.

The council are not the ones who will not let this thread die.

The way you are speaking is as if the competition was SOOO corrupt and so fixed that it was not even worth the time of some people to enter as they had no chance of winning anyway.
Also accusations of the ‘old boys club’ are utter nonsense. Everyone knows the old boys got serviced in the first N950 device program.
If YOU could resolve this, without consequence, without answering to anyone. What would you do?

That's exactly the point I was trying to make in my previous posts - and I think this is the solution for the future - distinguish rewarding council with devices from CA, and nobody will be able to question that.

I do not think that councilors ever got free devices automatically from Nokia. What has happened though is that councilors often participate in discounted device programs or been selected in other programs (by Karma or other merits).

Because, as has been discussed, councilors are councilors usually because of their merits...

Very little of what is being discussed in this thread will make a blind bit of difference to the majority of TMO members.

Maemo/Fremantle/Meego/Harmattan are all pretty much screwed by Nokia from here on, so what I (and I presume most members) would most appreciate is less in-fighting and more effort trying to keep this forum and our various devices ALIVE. For as long as possible.

So try and forget all this b*tching and try to concentrate on some sort of future - for all of us.

Thank you

Can anyone think of an example of another honored group giving itself valuable awards in this way? You might have to look in Russia or China, or maybe Zimbabwe.

I personally would have appointed some people deemed objective observers to give the awards -- Texrat comes to mind.

Since the current crowd are so oblivious to the obvious, I guess it is time to abandon hope, as I previously said.

That's why i expected at least to see the discussion on the meeting, but it made it worse, and if before at least apology would be somehow enuf. Now i don't see any way to make it up, even if they'll give their devices to other people, i still would understand it's from pressure. And it's just hard to get that those people can make a decision for whole community.


vi__, i think 5 hours and their time is really big contribute, but they are still councils for a month, while there are people that worked for maemo even before harmattan, and only with harmattan but for almost year, so you can't say anything, as again it was stated that it's for past deeds and not time they'll spend judging. You can't ride both horses, telling that rule is A here, but in this situation -A is good too.

Edit: And btw few of contributors(we knwo the names) didn't get n950 on first time, some just jumped in after harmattan was out, but they contributed lately a lot, for example inception is the first door for CSSU in my eyes, i'm impressed wiith things MohammadAG did with it, and things other devs would do with it's power. And i don't think Nokia would give him any price or devkit. And it's not coding competition material.

The Councillor did not come down in the last rain. They have been here for longer than 1 year I can tell you.

So your point about 1 set of rules for 1 and another for the rest is invalid. They have past deeds to attribute their award to going back beyond being members of the council.

The argument 'they won because they are in the council' does not mean they were awarded because they are simply in the council. They are in the council because they have been heavily involved in the past.

A lot of people were here for past year and few more than 2 years =)

As it was mentioned 5/7 election do not prove anything.

Yes, that is what is being said. Them only being in the council for 1 month is inconsequential. To get into the council they had to already prove themselves.

What is your point?

We are on same noat, i just want out "leaders" in this hard situation to act as they should be. I think small things matters more that big, as it's a real exam for a person, and i know person that even in not that important situation is an example, he would be an example in any situation. And we don't try to b*tch and cry here, it's important to be fair and honest in hard times and future is written in history, if people wouldn't believe in council at some point they wouldn't donate for hosting if needed. All the good and an example should be made by leaders not to profit but for future of community, while here the conflict of interests exactly between personal benefit and community.