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These improvements make InternetTableTalk the best web site for the 770, IMO. I notice that there are 20 members and 185 guests on line at the moment so if traffic is an indicator of what people think then 770 Portal looks like a logical next step, Reggie!

Thanks. It seems however that other developers don't like the idea much since both are quite redundant with Maemo's Application Catalog, and the Maemo How-to wikis.

I just hope that they understand that the site's primary focus is helping users as well as encouraging them to share their experiences. These two new features aim to collect information to help the user community.

They should now that with Linux the Dev community and user community exist together. If they don't then USERS pick up a c/c++ book and start coding!

Indeed. And development is pointless without users (although most developers in open source circles are also their own user).

However, at the moment I don't think the potential side-effects of the split focus are worth the long-term benefits of ditching the current ApplicationCatalog. When there are more than the 26 currently installable applications by end-users[1], then yes. But the wiki's got a way to scale yet...

Cheers,

Andrew

[1] And 9 of these are terminal-based apps, which probably aren't usable by non-technical end-users.

I agree.

I think a wiki is the wrong approach to list applications. I think that in the long run, users might find itT's type of download section more useful since 1) they can rate the application, 2) they can discuss the application, 3) they can see which is popular based on the number of downloads 4) search based on name, category, etc. Furthermore, as the number of applications become more in more in number, I doubt that first time Maemo developers as well as big time commercial developers might not list their apps Maemo Application Catalog since the site seems more developer focused.

Maemo provides a much different focus - the site doesn't deal at all with the potential of remote X on the 770. For my part, as someone who views the value of the 770 in the context of better competing in the vertical market solution biz, I don't feel comfortable even talking about the concept of apps that are not 100% GPL over there, whereas here anyone with my viewpoint at least can hint at the idea. In particular, vertical market apps as a business is where Linux doesn't seriously compete yet, much less dominate, and the apps that will change this simply have to be a hybrid of GPL & proprietary for now because they have to be created and compete within the context of working revenue models.
The last news article at Maemo is October 26. I don't see a welcome mat over at Maemo for that, and I don't see anything in their list of X software except programs like 'Joe', an ascii-text screen editor and VIM. That may make some people happy but it doesn't float my boat. Maemo has its place but the action, clearly, is here, especially now that the HowTo Wiki and Software sections have been added.

I'm sorry to hear you feel that way. We are not discouraging proprietary development, quite the contrary. The platform components are (at "worst") LGPL precisely in order to make all kinds of development possible, GPL or proprietary. We're not going to dictate under which license you must distribute your own work.

I think the most likely reason for all(?) the existing apps being GPL is that because the source is open anyone is able to port it to maemo. I'm willing to bet that most of the ports are done by the users of said applications, not by their maintainers.

On the developer list we might ridicule you for technical goofs but not for licensing issues. We welcome all kinds of development for the platform and are hoping to have a friendly and constructive environment in the mailing lists. Some individuals feel more strongly about licensing than others, but that shouldn't affect technical discussions.

So for development discussions I'd urge you to try to take advantage of the developer community. OTOH if you only have a ready application to announce you're probably right, it makes little sense to do so for the developer community when the developers have and can take no part in the development.

I do understand all of this, Tommi. I've sent several emails to Nokia in the past several months, though, and they've all been ignored. That's not the case at ITT, though, and I'm sure you understand that I'm merely walking through the first door that I can find open.
At Maemo the explanation given under 'Contributing Applications' says this; "If you have written an application using the maemo development platform and would like to announce it then visit our Application Catalog wiki page and add some information about your project." Dr. Ari Jaaksi has also stated that "The goal of the organization is to provide Nokia with the best possible open source based technology and collaborate directly with various open source projects."

I have been building and improving an application-specific development framework for remote X apps, for many years, apps which will work elegantly on the 770. These apps require and thrive on any handheld touchscreen device that has X on it. It's been proprietary but I'm preparing to open much of it up and the way it's built doesn't have anything to do with Maemo, so I am on another playing field than Maemo. Whether all of it will ever be open source is far from settled. Freeing software is a process of many steps when it involves the complex issues of vertical market software solutions. Maemo and open source simply don't address them. This is why there have to be other issues, each with its own focus, and each different than what Maemo is designed to do.

I understand why Maemo was built and it is absolutely necessary, but I'm in a unique position of needing (and having) a development framework that satisfies the requirements of developing software for at least some vertical markets. If Maemo was built as "THE" way for people to develop the apps that make the 770 useful, then it simply turns out that because of X there is no reason for the 770 to be limited to what Maemo can do for it. Let me put it this way - if the 770 is to be many things to many people, and I think it has to be, then it it will have to be exploitable in ways that neither Nokia nor Maemo could ever have been able to imagine.

Greetings,

There has been talk on maemo-devel today about the wiki-based application catalog at maemo.org getting large and unwieldy. Although the itt software catalog never quite took off, I think there are enough apps out there that a list is no longer the right interface to view them. I think the itt catalog is a great candidate to fill that need, but it's not quite finished...

As near as I can tell, you can't update an existing application. The category tree is too large for the current number of applications. The search interface is overly complicated and buried at the bottom of the main screen. Lots of little niggles.

What's the skinny? Is the software catalog completely custom, or is it based on some existing cataloging package? Is it possible to get some code to hack on to try to flesh it out and make this _the_ place to find 770 software? If not is it worth posting bug reports and mockups here, or is the catalog in a stable state right now and not open for hacking?

Thanks,
Mike