think of me as a T-101 then...

i'm not constantly giving you... whatever that was.
specifically in the present situation you are trying to distract the topic
yes, it is about

• having a member of the Council step down
• replacing the whole Council if that's the only way to achieve 1st point...

again, nothing personal
Estel doesn't have the manners to coach leave alone lead a Community, certainly not in such a critical period.
want to talk about that?

misterc, I can see we're not on the same wavelength so, no, I don't want to continue at this point. All I will say is that I agree that discussion over your bullet points is completely valid here... and that in no way is related to what *I* was talking about.

Carry on.

thank you for acknowledging this!
i understand now why Bill holds you in hight regards.
i have posted all i had to post.
others can put in their opinion(s) if they care to contribute.

unless there is an in-equivocal opinion coming out of it i'll probably end up creating that "referendum" thread i already alluded to.

Texrat, one last point...
you mentioned a couple times (in private discussions we had in the past) that a single person posting with different IDs is breaching the rules of (any) forum.

do you think that a person committing that felony would belong into the Council?

Well, I wouldn't call it a felony first off...

But let's make sure we're being properly specific. There is a special account set up here to be a single council "voice", so if we looked at it as simply as you posted then we automatically have a problem.

But pedantic thoughts and specific accounts aside, my *personal* feeling is that if someone is doing that deceptively, then no, I don't think they belong on the council. But keep in mind that's simply the opinion of a member here and carries no weight.

Texrat, maybe You're "reading between the lines" more, than people intended to put there?

Through Your quotes, I've seen parts of misterc'ish crap - he seem to interpret me as "weight" mentioned by Woody in his post. Personally, I took it as reference to hard decision how (and when) first Board of Directors should be elected.

At least, I hope that it was intended meaning - I don't see reasonable guy like Woody doing such personal attacks in public. It would be impolite, childish and extremely over self-confident - especially, during discussion about feasibility of changing/improving/leaving as-is rules appending to position of Chair - which Woody is on, currently, with trust of whole Council and Community.

Woody, could You, please, explain what You meant, precisely? I'm sure that cutting interpretations done by misterc would be healthy for discussion. I'm afraid, that Texrat's view on current Council may be affected by crap'ish suggestions, made by mentioned person.
---

As for civilized discussions merit:

OK, now I get rationale behind it - if our hypothetical "corrupted" chair is declaring new election without consultations with other Councilors (and their approval), such chair can be changed, and new election declared "null and void" If, in other case, Councilors doesn't want to change chair, it mean that majority of Council feel need for new election, so it should be proceed - sooner the better - anyway.

I think it is reasonable, after clarifying how it works.

/Estel

So when's the next election?

Well, I tried to settle this thing in transparent, clear, and civil way. We had Council meeting today, so before it started - seeing Woody online - I've asked him to clarify:
http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23mae...07-13T19:48:18

He haven't replied, so I asked about it again, before Council meeting start (he was there already):
http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclo...07-13T21:02:59

As You can see from this quote, he wasn't eager to clear it. I've kindly asked again, after we have discussed other points, and had free time before X-Fade expected arrival:
http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclo...07-13T21:44:22

As You can see from discussion, to my surprise, Woody denied to clarify it and discuss about. Rest of Councilors - Ivgalvez, NielDK and SD69, despite being repeatedly (and kindly) asked, refused to even talk about it.

FYI: I've also tried to talk about it with other Councilors privately, during last week, to no avail. Such unresponsiveness and lack of decisiveness (when done on purpose) is unacceptable for me, in body like Council. I can only imagine amount of peer-to-peer, murky discussions between other Councilors, as it's hard to believe such coordinated lack of reply as coincidence (and even if so, it would mean even worse about Council integrity and Councilors moral side).
---

Conclusion is clear for me. I have my opinion, on how such "sneaky" suggestions on public Council's thread - then, refusing to say "b" latter - stands for Woody's declarations about transparency. But, it is not important at this time and place.

What is important, is that it definitely doesn't allow healthy collaboration on place where it should be happening most - Community Council.

It's really disheartening for me, that people I've trusted (and personally asked - most of them - to become candidates for Council election) refuse to do like a honorable woman/man and clear atmosphere, allowing us to focus on more important things... Especially, considering important tasks, that Community and Council is approaching.

During transformation into Hildon Foundation, and Council becoming (this way or another) Board of Directors, such fogged, unclear and fishy things are not allowed - Council will require much trust from whole Community, as per new responsibilities (including managing real money from donations).
---

Considering all of this - as said - I doesn't see any room for healthy and productive collaboration with current Council squad. Natural result of this is me stepping down from Councilor role, immediately.

I'll continue to volunteer for Maemo Community where I can (and my skills are applicable), especially in projects that You all know me from best (excluding direct collaboration with current Councilors, due to lack of trust in both directions - I've lost trust for them today).

I'm very happy, that I was part of bringing Council election back to living thing, resulting in first election with real voting since long time. I'm sure that such insignificant event as this stepping down (no irony here) won't turn Community from participating into Council or Boards elections, and we will continue to choose our Representatives.

Despite any bad taste due collaboration problems, current Council is still our democratically elected team, representing whole Community - me included. I wish those guys much persistence in leading Maemo through those turbulent times.

This was my last post as current Cadence Councilor - please treat all follow-ups as regular Community ember input..

Sincerely,
/Estel

No, you didn't. You tried to again muddy the waters of a meeting with personal drama. I and the other Council (and even one observer) rejected you trying to do so. There was no collaboration, nor "secret messages" involved. I for one was just tired of the game playing and felt it had no place in the meeting.

I had full intention of writing a reply to you. But your post (16:40 UTC) was not something I could reply to before 18:00 UTC, and not something I wanted to deal with in a live forum like IRC during important business. Nor was it more important than my day job (I'm EDT, so that's 12:40pm and 2pm respectively, my time.)

This speaks for itself.

To clarify: You consider talking to Councilors privately to bolster your side of an argument as OK. But...

You then assume (incorrectly) that the rest of Council is doing so about you, and say it shows a lack of integrity and morals? Do you not see the conflict or hypocrisy in these two statements? You accuse others of acts only you have done, but condemn only others for it.

Let me be crystal clear about this: For the past month or so through my reading this post, I've had no private communications with the other Council members. All messages were either on the Council ML (for all Council to see), in public posts, or in logged IRC channel meetings. Frankly this past week, I've been quite busy catching up with my actual job, after being on vacation last week.

There is a great amount of collaboration happening. You've simply been too busy picking petty fights and causing drama than involving yourself in efforts to help the community.

As for "trust" in the current Council, I ask anyone who is bothered by things said here to review the meeting minutes, not just of the last meeting when it's posted (raw IRC log is here), but of all the published minutes. Hopefully you will see the Council acting in the community's best interest, with the possible exception of one member.

In some ways, I'm sad that Estel chose to leave. Sadder still that he did so with a typical venomous "good bye" post we've seen here on TMO all too often. But then to leave because someone did not want to reply to a post on TMO or IRC within a 2 hour time window, on a non-critical topic, smells to me of someone looking for an excuse to leave.