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2012-07-17
, 13:57
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Posts: 322 |
Thanked: 218 times |
Joined on Feb 2012
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#732
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Originally Posted by NokiaFanatic
Well, as ridiculous as my expectations may seem, that is my expectations for any "alternative" to existing top of the line products. I may go for lower specs, no problems, but then the already existing S40 line of Ashas seems like a much better "alternative". Remember, Jolla is going for a closed device, it will not be open in any sense of the word. Sure they use an OSS core, Mer, but Android is also running on an OSS core.
Firstly, I think you have absolutely ridiculous expectations and secondly, I don't think you "get" what Jolla are trying to do.
On the expectation part, you do realise that Jolla are a tiny start-up with about 100 employees (Nokia have over 100,000 employees, Apple over 20,000 employees, even RIM have 10,000)? Even with 10,000 employees, do you think it's even remotely possible to build and test an entire device, OS and features from scratch and bring the product to market in one year?
As for what Jolla are trying to do, they have made it perfectly clear that they are trying to bring a true flavour of Linux to a phone. Whether it's x86/ARM or dual/quad core is completely irrelevant. What we're talking about here is delivering a more open, more powerful, PC like experience to a mobile device. If we get that, on any kind of remotely decent hardware, I will probably buy it. The alternative is a dying platform (Harmattan) or a platform that is vapourware (Tizen).
Just "different" means nothing to me if that "different" include a closed OS on a mediocre device on a non existing ecosystem. Why would anyone buy such a device? It will be like a bad copy of Bada (another closed system running on a almost non existent ecosystem). It would be worse, it will be like the cheapest Bada device out there. There is absolutely nothing inspiring about such things.
My whole point is you have to do things right, or no one will purchase it. The recipe is simple:
1. Create an ecosystem, music, cloud services, mail, movies, maps etc etc or something completely new.
2. Create apps for that ecosystem on existing devices (Android, iOS, WP, Symbian, S40 dumb phones. PC, tablets)
3. Create a device that utilizes that ecosystem out of the box + a nice API for apps.
OR
1. Create a bad *** device, a HW monster like the N900 (almost was) with top of the line browser and connectivity to utilize other ecosystems. This is preferably done with open source. The pieces already exist, Alien Dalvik for instance.
The recipe is simple. I didn't say the execution is simple or cheap. But that is what it takes. Either you create an ecosystem, or you leech from other ecosystems. If your solution involves no ecosystem, it's already DOA. I believe a bad *** HW monster is viable. It doesn't need to look good, there is no need for 8mm thickness or exotic materials. A brick like the N900 will do just fine, as long as the internals are top.
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2012-07-17
, 14:20
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Posts: 1,671 |
Thanked: 11,478 times |
Joined on Jun 2008
@ Warsaw, Poland
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#733
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Originally Posted by lma
I think we all can agree that the way 'developer mode' was implemented in Maemo6/Harmattan was not ideal in any way. Including system not seemingily tested in open mode at all.
The second half of that message is "and details will come later", so there's more to it than that. Am I the only one having deja vu?
Besides that, nobody noticing
- Jolla intends to donate as much of its code back to the open source community and this way develop the ecosystem. We do not want to own the ecosystem but lead it.
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2012-07-17
, 14:46
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Posts: 322 |
Thanked: 218 times |
Joined on Feb 2012
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#734
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Originally Posted by Stskeeps
I think we all can agree that the way 'developer mode' was implemented in Maemo6/Harmattan was not ideal in any way. Including system not seemingily tested in open mode at all.
Besides that, nobody noticing
..this?
Jolla intends to donate as much of its code back to the open source community and this way develop the ecosystem. We do not want to own the ecosystem but lead it.
I don't like the way these Jolla people talk. Too much is left for the imagination and it can be interpreted any way you want.
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2012-07-17
, 14:48
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Posts: 738 |
Thanked: 983 times |
Joined on Apr 2010
@ London
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#735
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Originally Posted by mikecomputing
That's funny because you can already buy some. Plus it has already been tested (see links by other posters). And what's more, it's reasonnably heavily marketed (tube + TV ads by orange). Add to that the perfectly standard powerVR GPU (same as many arm soc), and it seem a pretty viable option for any non flagship phone. It might not be compatible with Jolla strategy (probably high end phone), but you should stop the fud about intel low power offering.
again medfield has not been tested on a mobileplatform and is a heavy risk for a small player success with an untested cpu.
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2012-07-17
, 15:01
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Posts: 234 |
Thanked: 160 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
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#736
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specc,
I doubt you are ever going to find the device you are looking for in the smartphone market. Fact is, to get carrier buy-in, you are going to need to be closed to a certain extent. It is because that's what they want. That is just the reality of the market.
An important difference in this is that Android = Google while Mer != Jolla. Mer is a project that can benefit from Jolla's involvement, yet can have priorities that aren't necessarily Jolla's.
I think it is far too early to say that what Jolla is doing won't work for you because we are light on the details. Your rant on ecosystems is a case in point. What kind of ecosystem is Jolla going to have? No one really knows yet. They say that they think they have an answer to that, but we don't know what that answer is. It would be a strong assumption to think, considering the quick start that they are looking for, that they'd glom onto someone else's ecosystem while also building on top of the Maemo/Meego ecosystem, but it is an assumption based on available information.
While I don't have strong expectations, it is worth keeping an eye on, because I don't see a better option out there right now.
I doubt you are ever going to find the device you are looking for in the smartphone market. Fact is, to get carrier buy-in, you are going to need to be closed to a certain extent. It is because that's what they want. That is just the reality of the market.
Sure they use an OSS core, Mer, but Android is also running on an OSS core.
I think it is far too early to say that what Jolla is doing won't work for you because we are light on the details. Your rant on ecosystems is a case in point. What kind of ecosystem is Jolla going to have? No one really knows yet. They say that they think they have an answer to that, but we don't know what that answer is. It would be a strong assumption to think, considering the quick start that they are looking for, that they'd glom onto someone else's ecosystem while also building on top of the Maemo/Meego ecosystem, but it is an assumption based on available information.
While I don't have strong expectations, it is worth keeping an eye on, because I don't see a better option out there right now.
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2012-07-17
, 15:07
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Posts: 1,086 |
Thanked: 2,964 times |
Joined on Jan 2010
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#737
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I'm really tired of the word 'ecosystem'. Everytime I read it i can see Elop's porky face.
__________________
Follow me on my neglected twitter @kojacker
Cybot950 - Control a robot with your N9/N950
SMSPetFeeder - Build a Bluetooth/SMS dog feeder with Qt, N950, and arduino
Nerf950 - Use your N9/N950 to fire a Nerf gun
Follow me on my neglected twitter @kojacker
Cybot950 - Control a robot with your N9/N950
SMSPetFeeder - Build a Bluetooth/SMS dog feeder with Qt, N950, and arduino
Nerf950 - Use your N9/N950 to fire a Nerf gun
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2012-07-17
, 15:08
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Posts: 951 |
Thanked: 2,344 times |
Joined on Jan 2012
@ UK
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#738
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Originally Posted by specc
nothing is set in stone at the moment, project plans change drastically over time. What's the point to say something that your not fully sure of?
Exactly what kind of ecosystem are we talking about here?
I don't like the way these Jolla people talk. Too much is left for the imagination and it can be interpreted any way you want.
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2012-07-17
, 15:12
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Posts: 1,548 |
Thanked: 7,510 times |
Joined on Apr 2010
@ Czech Republic
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#739
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Originally Posted by lma
I think that the main difference is, that the x86 architecture maintains binary compatibility and ARM doesn't.
But a 29-year old one (ARM was introduced in 1983) is fine?
Eq. a binary for an Acorn computer won't run on a cortex A8, but a Lotus Notes binary for a 286 should theoretically run on modern Core i7 just fine.
As a result, ARM can discard outdated parts of the instructions set when creating a new ARM based architecture (ARMv1,ARMv2,ARMv3,...) and x86 can't.
__________________
modRana: a flexible GPS navigation system
Mieru: a flexible manga and comic book reader
Universal Components - a solution for native looking yet component set independent QML appliactions (QtQuick Controls 2 & Silica supported as backends)
modRana: a flexible GPS navigation system
Mieru: a flexible manga and comic book reader
Universal Components - a solution for native looking yet component set independent QML appliactions (QtQuick Controls 2 & Silica supported as backends)
Last edited by MartinK; 2012-07-17 at 15:15.
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2012-07-17
, 15:17
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Guest |
Posts: n/a |
Thanked: 0 times |
Joined on
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#740
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I share my pessimism about Jolla. If these are the same people that brought us laggy and stuttering n900 and N9, they will have no chance in competing against current line ups. They need a leader that will push them to the limits that they have not known before, and I am. It sure they can do it. In terms of fluidity and usability, N900 and N9 are in the third division. Why do we think that they have what it takes to jump to the premier league ?
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| jolla, jolla on topic, jollamobile, meego, merproject, nokia, nokian9, professionals, speculations, tizenjolla |
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All times are GMT. The time now is 17:49.
On the expectation part, you do realise that Jolla are a tiny start-up with about 100 employees (Nokia have over 100,000 employees, Apple over 20,000 employees, even RIM have 10,000)? Even with 10,000 employees, do you think it's even remotely possible to build and test an entire device, OS and features from scratch and bring the product to market in one year?
As for what Jolla are trying to do, they have made it perfectly clear that they are trying to bring a true flavour of Linux to a phone. Whether it's x86/ARM or dual/quad core is completely irrelevant. What we're talking about here is delivering a more open, more powerful, PC like experience to a mobile device. If we get that, on any kind of remotely decent hardware, I will probably buy it. The alternative is a dying platform (Harmattan) or a platform that is vapourware (Tizen).