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SynergyX is offline SynergyX
2012-10-11 , 18:41
Posts: 25 | Thanked: 42 times | Joined on Aug 2012 @ Athens, Greece.
#41
It was more or less obvious of the internal fights at Nokia, just look at the N series vs the E series, the different apps and updates, clearly the groups behind were fighting each other.

It was also amazingly stupid how Nokia killed Series90, what was then the most advanced Symbian UI. Had they developed it further, they would have had a mature touch screen OS before Apple! I always had the feeling that they didn't really want to compete with UIQ and that's why they killed it.

I also think they effectively killed Symbian when they bought it. Even SE, the other major Symbian player, walked out in fear that the OS was becoming a Nokia only affair.

It's also interesting how many UIs were designed for MeeGo before going with the SwipeUI and that I think that was always Nokia's problem, too many ideas and too many (clueless) people having a say.

Also, let's thank Neonode for coming up with a swipe driven UI in 2002. It truly is one of the most innovative ideas ever, even if it hasn't been successful yet.

It is really a shame that Nokia became so slow over the years, we could have enjoyed amazing products, like we did in the 90's. It is also a real shame that Europe is now a third player in the mobile space where it once was first.
 

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HELLASISGREECE is offline HELLASISGREECE
2012-10-11 , 18:51
Posts: 896 | Thanked: 978 times | Joined on Feb 2011 @ Greece, Athens
#42
^ this post is so true
 
Plankku is offline Plankku
2012-10-11 , 19:00
Posts: 2 | Thanked: 41 times | Joined on Oct 2012
#43
Originally Posted by Dave999 View Post
Great read. Any old nokians here? Quim around? What's your take on this article? Care add some notes?
Based on the translation, it appears mostly accurate. Some of the translation is too sloppy to understand completely.
This article opened old wounds. It is painful to recall how much potential there was at Nokia only to have poor management throw it away.

A good point touched on in the article is how subcontractors from different regions were all heavily involved. This is true.
All the Nokia internals were always focused on Symbian. The first time I saw Diablo platform, I was not too impressed. When I saw Fremantle and got to work on it I was very excited. I thought this signaled the new direction that could make Nokia huge again. Especially in NAM region (weakest sales). I gave 150 percent and volunteered to work more than my schedule to be a part of Fremantle (Rover). The end results I can say felt like my own child. A child that was brought up very well only to be kicked out of the house at a young age and left to fend for himself. My morale and good feeling about Nokia began to sink.
But back to subcontractors. I worked a lot with them and it was always people from India primarily as well as Asia Pacific. Only when problems were very high up did Finland internals get involved. This meant that a lot of bugs never got past some of the contractors or did not get enough push to make it to Finland managers. Harmattan would be different.

Harmattan had a large budget but for small team. Actual budget though was smaller compared to other projects at time. There was big push in US to work on X7 for a US carrier. This took a lot of people (managers and SW teams that could work on Meego) away from Harmattan and meant more contractors must do bulk of work for N950. N950 was being designed with ATT in mind at one point, but ATT has very demanding specs for their software. Contractors especially with the language barrier in India and Asia did not comprehend that. It was being worked on without regards to carriers from their end. That mean ATT would not approve it as is.
N950 was very poor after that. Too many changes and compromises. Not enough people to work on it. The simple UI went from good to bad and was regressing at one point. When layoffs continued to occur, Meego team had a very low morale. Incentive to do great work and continue was not there. And the subcontractors in India/Asia were not aware of internal struggles. Bugzilla reports looked like comments from a bathroom wall.
People held back too much information that could have helped the project sometimes. Credit for work was also stolen or not given often during these times. Just like Symbian groups.
Basically Meego was outsourced and polished internally by the few who cared (Jolla team). When N9 came out, it was due to N950 being in very bad shape. No way it could be released like that. N9 had more internals working on it but bulk of work had already been done. I never got to see Senna but I know it was planned. There was rumors of a smaller ebook reader at one point but that may have been tied to Senna rumors. I was already laid off so do not know about that. The power struggle was always a problem.
Last edited by Plankku; 2012-10-11 at 19:05.
 

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SynergyX is offline SynergyX
2012-10-11 , 19:17
Posts: 25 | Thanked: 42 times | Joined on Aug 2012 @ Athens, Greece.
#44
Originally Posted by Plankku View Post
Based on the translation, it appears mostly accurate. Some of the translation is too sloppy to understand completely.
This article opened old wounds. It is painful to recall how much potential there was at Nokia only to have poor management throw it away.

A good point touched on in the article is how subcontractors from different regions were all heavily involved. This is true.
All the Nokia internals were always focused on Symbian. The first time I saw Diablo platform, I was not too impressed. When I saw Fremantle and got to work on it I was very excited. I thought this signaled the new direction that could make Nokia huge again. Especially in NAM region (weakest sales). I gave 150 percent and volunteered to work more than my schedule to be a part of Fremantle (Rover). The end results I can say felt like my own child. A child that was brought up very well only to be kicked out of the house at a young age and left to fend for himself. My morale and good feeling about Nokia began to sink.
But back to subcontractors. I worked a lot with them and it was always people from India primarily as well as Asia Pacific. Only when problems were very high up did Finland internals get involved. This meant that a lot of bugs never got past some of the contractors or did not get enough push to make it to Finland managers. Harmattan would be different.

Harmattan had a large budget but for small team. Actual budget though was smaller compared to other projects at time. There was big push in US to work on X7 for a US carrier. This took a lot of people (managers and SW teams that could work on Meego) away from Harmattan and meant more contractors must do bulk of work for N950. N950 was being designed with ATT in mind at one point, but ATT has very demanding specs for their software. Contractors especially with the language barrier in India and Asia did not comprehend that. It was being worked on without regards to carriers from their end. That mean ATT would not approve it as is.
N950 was very poor after that. Too many changes and compromises. Not enough people to work on it. The simple UI went from good to bad and was regressing at one point. When layoffs continued to occur, Meego team had a very low morale. Incentive to do great work and continue was not there. And the subcontractors in India/Asia were not aware of internal struggles. Bugzilla reports looked like comments from a bathroom wall.
People held back too much information that could have helped the project sometimes. Credit for work was also stolen or not given often during these times. Just like Symbian groups.
Basically Meego was outsourced and polished internally by the few who cared (Jolla team). When N9 came out, it was due to N950 being in very bad shape. No way it could be released like that. N9 had more internals working on it but bulk of work had already been done. I never got to see Senna but I know it was planned. There was rumors of a smaller ebook reader at one point but that may have been tied to Senna rumors. I was already laid off so do not know about that. The power struggle was always a problem.
That was the problem right there. We, the consumers, lost faith in Nokia delivering something good in time or even keeping it alive for that matter.

They waited too long to make radical changes to Symbian while on the other hand they had Maemo on their hand which they didn't promote or develop and even when MeeGo came to be, it was nothing like Maemo. Talk about inconsistency.

And then came the burning platform memo.......

Personally, N9 is my last Nokia, no matter how great (or not) Lumias will be, I refuse to waste any more money on a company with no loyalty to its customers.
 

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Rauha is offline Rauha
2012-10-11 , 19:17
Posts: 1,400 | Thanked: 3,751 times | Joined on Sep 2009 @ Arctic cold of northern .fi
#45
Originally Posted by michaelmhk View Post
Is there an article for Symbian?
Andrew Orwlowski has written great history of Symbian and what went wrong with it.

Three parts:

Symbian, The Secret History: Dark Star
Symbian's Secret History: The battle for the company's soul
Symbian’s Secret History: Davies on what went right (and wrong)

and a great follow up, if you aren't bored to read even more about the Symbian crash. There's a really great ending to this article, with a well known Canadian boogey man making a suprise appearance at the end (and not doing what you would expect).

Nokia's Great Lost Platform

Sometimes, history is circular...indeed
 

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Lumiaman
2012-10-11 , 19:37
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#46
I just read this article, and I am not surprised. It pretty much proves what I have been saying all along: Elop was not the problem, NOKIA was the problem. Reading thru all the itinerations and disorganized thinking and leaderless planning, corroborates that NOKIA was running amok. Elop had to cut the fat. Whether the choice of Windows was right or wrong decision, remains to be seen. But without a decision, NOKIA would have had NO chance.

The interesting part is that the Swipe was invented by ex-Apple and ex-Adobe coders in New York. As well as the fact that Harmattan was in planning since 2008, and they couldnt get it right? I have to say that I think the incompetence to deliver, was not due to incompetent software engineers as I suspected, but undisciplined and rudderless teams within NOKIA.
 

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SynergyX is offline SynergyX
2012-10-11 , 19:49
Posts: 25 | Thanked: 42 times | Joined on Aug 2012 @ Athens, Greece.
#47
Originally Posted by Lumiaman View Post
I just read this article, and I am not surprised. It pretty much proves what I have been saying all along: Elop was not the problem, NOKIA was the problem. Reading thru all the itinerations and disorganized thinking and leaderless planning, corroborates that NOKIA was running amok. Elop had to cut the fat. Whether the choice of Windows was right or wrong decision, remains to be seen. But without a decision, NOKIA would have had NO chance.

The interesting part is that the Swipe was invented by ex-Apple and ex-Adobe coders in New York. As well as the fact that Harmattan was in planning since 2008, and they couldnt get it right? I have to say that I think the incompetence to deliver, was not due to incompetent software engineers as I suspected, but undisciplined and rudderless teams within NOKIA.

No doubt Nokia is a mess, but, surely the burning platform memo did not help the transition, it pissed off the loyal Symbian fans for one, not to mention killing MeeGo after releasing N9 without even having a finished WP phone to offer instead. I don't think they couldn't get Harmattan right, as shown by the UI designs, I think they wanted to prove that they could bring something new and fresh so badly.

Again.....Swipe was first used on Neonode's N1. The 80/20 studio came up with the N9 UI concept borrowing ideas from webOS that borrowed ideas from Neonode.
Last edited by SynergyX; 2012-10-11 at 19:55.
 

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Hacker is offline Hacker
2012-10-11 , 20:03
Posts: 359 | Thanked: 322 times | Joined on Jun 2010
#48
Man, after reading this article, it is so clear that the real problem was piss-poor management and organizational structure. I have seen numerous articles in the past noting the low performance ratings of Nokia executives and board members, but this article really shows you the picture of how much chaos that failure of leadership caused

This is a case study on why top organizations need top talent in leadership. But the question is HOW? How does a company as important as Nokia was to Finland, with so much talent there, end up with poor leadership? A good leader can manage egos and get unproductive internal conflict handled.

Does anyone have any insights or links on the leadership quality problem?
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Lumiaman
2012-10-11 , 20:11
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#49
NOKIA is a great case for business schools to study. The pre-Elop era was filled with huge incompetence.
 

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michaelmhk is offline michaelmhk
2012-10-11 , 20:16
Posts: 111 | Thanked: 62 times | Joined on Apr 2012 @ Hong Kong
#50
Originally Posted by SynergyX View Post
No doubt Nokia is a mess, but, surely the burning platform memo did not help the transition, it pissed off the loyal Symbian fans for one, not to mention killing MeeGo after releasing N9 without even having a finished WP phone to offer instead. I don't think they couldn't get Harmattan right, as shown by the UI designs, I think they wanted to prove that they could bring something new and fresh so badly.

Again.....Swipe was first used on Neonode's N1. The 80/20 studio came up with the N9 UI concept borrowing ideas from webOS that borrowed ideas from Neonode.
Swipe UI is great not just swipe gesture IMHO. Just like the article said 'it brought back some of the basic principles of the original Harmattan UI, which were ignored in the Simple Dali UI.'
 
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