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Kangal's Avatar
Kangal is offline Kangal
2012-11-25 , 12:44
Posts: 1,789 | Thanked: 1,699 times | Joined on Mar 2010
#21
Originally Posted by anthonie View Post
As the overall quality of any OS is clearly also determined by it's eco-system, how exactly would your statement work? How would Linux be superior but still be inferior at the same time?

In other words, how do you let it roll squarely?

I think the guy in the presentation made some valid points, nevertheless...
An OS can run without the support of third-party software, hardware and content.

An OS is simply the software that runs on the hardware, which is fairy distinguishable from its ecosystem.

Had the case been about the Chromebook, you would have a valid point.
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Originally Posted by mscion View Post
I vote that Kangal replace Elop!
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benny1967's Avatar
benny1967 is offline benny1967
2012-11-25 , 13:21
Posts: 3,790 | Thanked: 5,718 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria
#22
This guy is the most narcissistic person I've seen in quite a while. He obviously loves to hear himself talk. He enjoys the laughter from the audience. What he talks about is not important. (I mean, seriously, in these 43 minutes, did he say anything that was new or important to hear?)

I can make such a presentation about anything on the planet, from Windows to burgers to heterosexuals to fish. Everything on earth has positive and negative sides. It's easy to take about any topic and talk about only the negative things. But what's the point?

Useless presentation.
 
benny1967's Avatar
benny1967 is offline benny1967
2012-11-25 , 13:35
Posts: 3,790 | Thanked: 5,718 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria
#23
Originally Posted by anthonie View Post
As the overall quality of any OS is clearly also determined by it's eco-system, how exactly would your statement work? How would Linux be superior but still be inferior at the same time?
The "quality" of an OS is a subjective thing. Some people may find it important that and OS is as secure as possible. For others, software availability is king. Some find it important that it's pretty or easy to use. I myself am very ideological and go for freedom, anything that avoids any kind of hard or soft vendor lock-in.

So, saying that the quality of an OS is clearly also determinded by its eco-system as as wrong as the word "clearly" in this context suggests. I assume it's an important thing for you, otherwise you wouldn't have said so. But it's maybe not for others.

The GNU/Linux OS and its various distributions has found its niches and roles where its quality (quite obviously) is considered better than that of one of the alternatives. In the end, that's what's important: That those who need what Debian/Ubuntu/Fedora/... have to offer can use the respective distro and don't have to resort to Windows/OSX as the second best choice.
 
anthonie is offline anthonie
2012-11-25 , 13:55
Posts: 1,048 | Thanked: 1,127 times | Joined on Jan 2010 @ Amsterdam
#24
Originally Posted by Kangal View Post
An OS can run without the support of third-party software, hardware and content.

An OS is simply the software that runs on the hardware, which is fairy distinguishable from its ecosystem.

Had the case been about the Chromebook, you would have a valid point.
Let me simply quote the wikipedia:

In the context of software analysis, the term software ecosystem is defined by Lungu [5] as “a collection of software systems, which are developed and co-evolve in the same environment”
What I stated is that an OS and it's eco-system can hardly be seperated. Eco-system is not equivalent to "third-party software, hardware or content" as you, so eloquently just stated...

An OS is not "simply software that runs on hardware", it is software that runs on hardware to allow your other non-OS software to work with said hardware. It is a mediator.

"An operating system (OS) is a collection of software that manages computer hardware resources and provides common services for computer programs. The operating system is a vital component of the system software in a computer system. Application programs usually require an operating system to function."
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MINKIN2 is offline MINKIN2
2012-11-25 , 14:05
Posts: 1,326 | Thanked: 1,524 times | Joined on Mar 2010
#25
I take it that there are a few people here who don't follow the Linux Action Show?
 
benny1967's Avatar
benny1967 is offline benny1967
2012-11-25 , 14:40
Posts: 3,790 | Thanked: 5,718 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria
#26
Originally Posted by MINKIN2 View Post
I take it that there are a few people here who don't follow the Linux Action Show?
There's probably a reason for that. I tried to watch when they covered the N900 but couldn't bear it.
 
Kangal's Avatar
Kangal is offline Kangal
2012-11-25 , 23:21
Posts: 1,789 | Thanked: 1,699 times | Joined on Mar 2010
#27
Originally Posted by anthonie View Post
Let me simply quote the wikipedia:



What I stated is that an OS and it's eco-system can hardly be seperated. Eco-system is not equivalent to "third-party software, hardware or content" as you, so eloquently just stated...

An OS is not "simply software that runs on hardware", it is software that runs on hardware to allow your other non-OS software to work with said hardware. It is a mediator.

"An operating system (OS) is a collection of software that manages computer hardware resources and provides common services for computer programs. The operating system is a vital component of the system software in a computer system. Application programs usually require an operating system to function."
Sorry but you are arguing semantics.
Referencing Wikipedia doesn't help you either.

I think the majority know what I mean when I discern the difference between the OS and the ecosystem.... Especially THIS community!
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Originally Posted by mscion View Post
I vote that Kangal replace Elop!
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I'm flattered
 
switch-hitter is offline switch-hitter
2012-11-25 , 23:27
Posts: 207 | Thanked: 552 times | Joined on Jul 2011
#28
I thought this was going to be another tiresome tosspot pretending he really needed Photoshop and Cubase, I actually got to 15 minutes before losing enthusiasm.
 
juiceme is offline juiceme
2012-11-26 , 05:30
Community Council | Posts: 4,920 | Thanked: 12,867 times | Joined on May 2012 @ Southerrn Finland
#29
The presenter nailed a lot of important things down, however at least in that session there were too little solutions offered.

All the critisisms were valid on the viewpoint of many users, sepecially for users who do not have developer background. For example the everchanging desktop UI's, for some people it may be a major turndown for the whole system. On the other hand, for people doing SW development for example, the major tool anyway is the xterm runnng bash or whatever shell necessary. Luckily that does not change so fast

I myself see this multiplicity of choices a bounty, one can choose whatever tools one likes from the UI up to any number of alternate ways of doing things. And if something is not to my liking, I can replace and change it until it is. To me that is natural, but I do understand that it might look difficult for people that do not understand the way operating systems are constructed.

So, it is true Linux sucks in a big way, and that is one of the reasons it is so beutiful. I would not have it any other way.
 
switch-hitter is offline switch-hitter
2012-11-26 , 09:00
Posts: 207 | Thanked: 552 times | Joined on Jul 2011
#30
Originally Posted by specc View Post
A good OS is invisible. It is just there and does what it is supposed to do with minimal "configuration" from the user. For the end user Linux sucks in the same way Symbian sucks. Powerful and fun OS'es, but they ultimately fail the end user test
In the case of Symbian hundreds of millions of people all around the world bought Symbian devices right up until the point it was deprecated. It certainly didn't fail the 'end user test'.

With regards to Linux did you see this piece by ZDNet Australia? Just before the release of Windows 7 they took out a laptop loaded with KDE4 and showed it to random members of the public telling them they were looking at Windows 7. Notice how they ooh and aah and say 'Wow, that's amazing!'?

The thing that really sucks about Linux is that most people don't know that Linux doesn't suck. In fact many don't even know what Linux is. They buy a PC and it comes preloaded with Windows, that's the way it is. My sister-in-law wouldn't even believe me that you could run a PC without Windows, she thought I was talking b0ll0cks when I said my laptop didn't have Windows on it.
 
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