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Hacker is offline Hacker
2013-03-05 , 21:26
Posts: 359 | Thanked: 322 times | Joined on Jun 2010
#741
Sorry if this isn't new to this thread:
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?feature...ure%3Dyoutu.be

And I would like to think that there is a good chance that Jolla will want a fairly workable form of Sailfish on the N9: giving Sailfish to this community is the right thing to do.

Plus, it buys them time and makes them money.

First, it is the cheapest way that Jolla can increase mindshare and engagement in a new-launch product. What's more, quite frankly, is that Jolla needs some time to make it to market. And turning this community into active Sailfish users and developers makes that time as useful as possible. We're basically volunteering to be their beta testers--why wouldn't they use us?
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jalyst is offline jalyst
2013-03-05 , 22:23
Moderator | Posts: 5,320 | Thanked: 4,464 times | Joined on Oct 2009
#742
Fark, fracking power outage! Had a detailed post... Short response:

I have to disagree... IMO it'd be foolhardy to be allocating anything more than small resources (which they've been doing) towards a slick/complete sol'n.*
AFTER their device is out (& after they've analysed sales for approx. 6mth), IF sales are looking respectable, THEN they could possibly increase resources much more towards that.
They must focus on getting it out, ideally by no later than Oct, putting a large amt of resources towards a full N9/950 port would hinder that, in a extremely tight/competitive market.

*nvm the fact that there's some real roadblocks that will prevent much of it anyway.
Last edited by jalyst; 2013-03-05 at 22:28. Reason: typo
 
Zoxir is offline Zoxir
2013-03-05 , 23:39
Posts: 273 | Thanked: 463 times | Joined on May 2011 @ Athens
#743
Originally Posted by Makeclick View Post
It is maybe only me, but I don't like what you are saing... Why you slam the Ubuntu and the Canonical so much? I personally love to use Ubuntu, very clean and nice OS. The Sailfish OS and the Ubuntu should not be at war! They are linux, so we need to pull the same rope! I personally like debian based distros more (.deb) and this is FOR ME maybe one big thing, why i may choose the Ubuntu phone over the Sailfish, but hey.. Don't you dare think i don't bye Jolla devise too!

Now i even use Google nexus 4 with android and i actually like the way 4.2.2 Android version + MiHome (miui launcher) working.
I like the Ubuntu touch phone thingy too but I have to admit that canonical is going down a dangerous path, it is promising everything and hasn't delievered nothing and I mean nothing. Firefox OS has already established carrier and manufacturer relations even Jolla has signed a Finish carrier and Chinese distributors, canonical has never mentioned any of this they just say that carrier will chose them because they are open, and because they are sick of android. Cannonical promised last year ubuntu tvs and still nothing the ubuntu touch preview was full of mockery icons pretending to be apps. At the time Canonical is the posterboy for linux in the eyes of the consumer and if all this truns out into a flop as I am afraid it will turn it will be twice as hard for other open linux based players to make it in the market. IMO they need to STFU work on whatever they're planning and then show us something ready.

Don't get me wrong by no means I am not saying that Jolla is better than them Jolla has a very childish and nerdish approach to how they speak about sailfish "it's so cool it boots an a raspberry pi" they pay people to get sailfish to boot on all kind of hardware, why they do that is beyond me. But at least they have been talking about one or two partners.

IMO FF OS is the most likely to succeed then tizen then sailfish and then ubuntu. My personal preference though would be Sailfish, ubuntu, FF OS (I put them before tizen because I trust mozilla way more than samsung) and the Tizen.

EDIT I forgot to write that mark shuttleworth needs to stop f##ingg trying to be steve jobs and be hes own person.
Last edited by Zoxir; 2013-03-05 at 23:42.
 
Hacker is offline Hacker
2013-03-06 , 00:05
Posts: 359 | Thanked: 322 times | Joined on Jun 2010
#744
Originally Posted by jalyst View Post
I have to disagree... IMO it'd be foolhardy to be allocating anything more than small resources (which they've been doing) towards a slick/complete sol'n.*
AFTER their device is out (& after they've analysed sales for approx. 6mth), IF sales are looking respectable, THEN they could possibly increase resources much more towards that.
They must focus on getting it out, ideally by no later than Oct, putting a large amt of resources towards a full N9/950 port would hinder that, in a extremely tight/competitive market.

*nvm the fact that there's some real roadblocks that will prevent much of it anyway.
You could be right, but how hard could it be to get something reasonably good to the N9/50 community, given that Jolla is intimately familiar with both the device hardware and all of the software combined? They should be able to do something like this in their sleep! Chop chop, Jolla! (just kiddin')

And I "know" or at least assume that they can't give us the dalvik hook-up, but I'm sure we'll figure something out. Heh heh heh. ;-)

Jolla needs to be as mature as possible at time of launch, which means as many man-hours as possible developing, testing, feedback, etc. And the faster they tie the plow to the beast (ie, us) and let us get started, the more work they will get done per unit time. Better for them to let us do as much as we can pre-launch, since we'll end up doing these sorts of task anyways and early momentum is more valuable, IMHO.

Are they going to give our devs developer devices like BB did? They should hook that up, too.
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Makeclick is offline Makeclick
2013-03-06 , 06:29
Posts: 586 | Thanked: 471 times | Joined on Jan 2010 @ Finland
#745
Originally Posted by diogotrc View Post
.deb is always slower than .rpm, and rpm5 (Mandriva based distros)is very fast!
What is rpm version of Sailfish? 4, delta or 5?
There must be different like 0.1s ? I can live with that. Actually i found this:
"The one advantage to .deb based systems is that the package manager (APT) generally does work faster, since .rpm by nature requires far more meta-data to parse through. Even this margin is narrowing, openSUSE has made some wicked strides with the latest version of zypper."

and

"Both rpm and deb perform similar functions. Rpm has better documentation than deb. Both are equally stable, so no difference there. Which is easier? Depends on what you're used to. Deb is apparently easier to make packages, but harder to maintain."

source: http://forums.opensuse.org/english/o...re-stable.html
 
mariusmssj is offline mariusmssj
2013-03-06 , 07:28
Posts: 951 | Thanked: 2,344 times | Joined on Jan 2012 @ UK
#746
New video - Jolla Sailfish OS and UI hands on


[edit]

What I just saw got my quite worried, When you open an app on N9 and swipe away the app goes in multitasking view and you can see it where you left it off, some even update in real time.

At 3:32 on the video he had the gallery app open with a picture and menu shown but when he swiped away on the tile it displayed the default gallery layout and not what he has open
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N9/N950 Kernel update project
VLC remote for Sailfish
Last edited by mariusmssj; 2013-03-06 at 07:38.
 
don_falcone is offline don_falcone
2013-03-06 , 08:13
Posts: 1,523 | Thanked: 1,997 times | Joined on Jul 2011 @ not your mom's FOSS basement
#747
Originally Posted by Zoxir View Post
I like the Ubuntu touch phone thingy too but I have to admit that canonical is going down a dangerous path, it is promising everything and hasn't delievered nothing and I mean nothing. Firefox OS has already established carrier and manufacturer relations even Jolla has signed a Finish carrier and Chinese distributors, canonical has never mentioned any of this they just say that carrier will chose them because they are open, and because they are sick of android. Cannonical promised last year ubuntu tvs and still nothing the ubuntu touch preview was full of mockery icons pretending to be apps. At the time Canonical is the posterboy for linux in the eyes of the consumer and if all this truns out into a flop as I am afraid it will turn it will be twice as hard for other open linux based players to make it in the market. IMO they need to STFU work on whatever they're planning and then show us something ready.
Ack'd.

Originally Posted by Zoxir View Post
Don't get me wrong by no means I am not saying that Jolla is better than them Jolla has a very childish and nerdish approach to how they speak about sailfish "it's so cool it boots an a raspberry pi" they pay people to get sailfish to boot on all kind of hardware, why they do that is beyond me. But at least they have been talking about one or two partners.
This. No seriously, i don't get it either. It seems common btw. f.e. open webOS spackers tend to do the same. Or Arch people; for me Arch / Alarm turned out being the most broken distro that i discovered in recent years. Ok it's not quite mature yet because of the period of it's existence, but one can really expect to have seriously broken things every second upgrade. But there are oh so many Alphas for all kind of sticks / mini / plug-boards and media devices. (And systemd debacle - that turned away quite a few people; Gentoo seems to treat its users better, better as in "let's ask what people prefer and leave them their choice", not "it's solely our decision")

I couldn't care less if something boots on a multitude of (mainstream and/or small batch) devices.

I care about:
- design decisions thought thru in full before being chiseled in stone
- frameworks / integration / APIs being complete (especially media and communication frameworks)
- no shortcuts taken (only subpart xy of spec implemented))
- no hacks that will bite you in future (Nokia?!)
- everything tested thoroughly (dito)

And what usefulness is an OS if it is available, open, and portable, if i have nothing diverse & professional to run on it? That will be the most important question. Until then, i will refrain from experiments. I can't stand hackjobs anymore, so things have to develop for them. Until then, i prefer to invest in my car.


Originally Posted by Zoxir View Post
EDIT I forgot to write that mark shuttleworth needs to stop f##ingg trying to be steve jobs and be hes own person.
Last edited by don_falcone; 2013-03-06 at 08:18.
 
Wonko is offline Wonko
2013-03-06 , 08:33
Posts: 456 | Thanked: 1,580 times | Joined on Dec 2009
#748
Originally Posted by mariusmssj View Post
What I just saw got my quite worried, When you open an app on N9 and swipe away the app goes in multitasking view and you can see it where you left it off, some even update in real time.

At 3:32 on the video he had the gallery app open with a picture and menu shown but when he swiped away on the tile it displayed the default gallery layout and not what he has open
Have a look at "Background Behavior", "Covers", and "Active Covers" here: https://sailfishos.org/sailfish-sili...lifecycle.html
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thedead1440 is offline thedead1440
2013-03-06 , 08:43
Moderator | Posts: 6,215 | Thanked: 6,400 times | Joined on Nov 2011
#749
Originally Posted by Wonko View Post
Have a look at "Background Behavior", "Covers", and "Active Covers" here: https://sailfishos.org/sailfish-sili...lifecycle.html
Hmm not exactly real multi-tasking then if animations etc are disallowed in active covers?
 
Wonko is offline Wonko
2013-03-06 , 08:58
Posts: 456 | Thanked: 1,580 times | Joined on Dec 2009
#750
Originally Posted by thedead1440 View Post
Hmm not exactly real multi-tasking then if animations etc are disallowed in active covers?
Actually, an "Active Cover" is something different: it allows interaction with the app from the application switcher.
Which is, imho, a novel thing.

What you mean is a "Cover" that is updated in realtime.
According to the linked document, applications are explicitly allowed to perform actions like computations etc. in the background. Which, imho, is exactly what multitasking is about.
The link i mentioned just gives a little guidance on how to improve background activity of apps.
It even does not forbid that you still perform fancy 3D rendering or HD video playback or other fancy stuff and update the "Cover" with this while in background.
It just gives the "hint" that apps shouldn't do it.

Edit:
To correct myself: at one point it says that, "All animations must be paused and, if possible, unused resources released.".
Which kinda would prohibit doing fancy stuff like 3D rendering or video playback.
Otoh, I think we can only truly explore the capabilities of Sailfishos once it is officially out.
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Last edited by Wonko; 2013-03-06 at 09:07.
 
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