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2013-09-27
, 00:05
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@ SOL 3
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#592
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well, nobody here can talk about what will the price for the device @ batches of 100k or more, since nobody every produced such batch, of all those who contribute with their guesswork here (incl me and dos1). And I'm not so bold to think we could ever reach that production volume. Your comaprisons are poorly picked and your estimations on relative complexity resp price related/caused by that are really based on not much at all.
And please keep OS discussions out of this thread. There are ~140 other threads in this forum to discuss those topics. Thanks
Last edited by joerg_rw; 2013-09-27 at 04:04.
And please keep OS discussions out of this thread. There are ~140 other threads in this forum to discuss those topics. Thanks
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Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
Hildon Foundation Council inaugural member.
MCe.V. foundation member
EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
aka "techstaff" - the guys who keep your infra running - Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
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First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
Hildon Foundation Council inaugural member.
MCe.V. foundation member
EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
aka "techstaff" - the guys who keep your infra running - Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
IRC(freenode): DocScrutinizer*
First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
Last edited by joerg_rw; 2013-09-27 at 04:04.
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2013-09-27
, 00:39
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Posts: 2,222 |
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Joined on Mar 2010
@ SOL 3
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#593
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Originally Posted by Fabry
This is the ~6th device creation and rollout that I witness from inside in every detail. I think we are aware of the "nobody buys it because high price - high price because nobody buys it" syndrome, and Nikolaus even elaborated whole "master thesis" on the whole topic, in OM and goldelico ML.
You can never reach a max of 300USD (for only board), ok no problem.
Probably it is impossible or it is not at your possibilities, in either cases we will not have an acceptable price and only very few of us will buy it
We don't need lessons about it. And I honestly hope some more users than you seem to think will think different about acceptable prices than you do, and will be willing to buy a Neo900 or GTA04 and thus we can get less expensive, which will cause more people buying a device which will allow us even lower prices again. You see the utopia works just as well as your dystopia/pessimism. A few hundred already sold GTA04 prove that my utopia has a chance, while under bright daylight your "only very few people will buy it" is a mere speculation, and not exactly a productive or helping one I might add.
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Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
Hildon Foundation Council inaugural member.
MCe.V. foundation member
EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
aka "techstaff" - the guys who keep your infra running - Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
IRC(freenode): DocScrutinizer*
First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
Hildon Foundation Council inaugural member.
MCe.V. foundation member
EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
aka "techstaff" - the guys who keep your infra running - Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
IRC(freenode): DocScrutinizer*
First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
Last edited by joerg_rw; 2013-09-27 at 01:43.
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2013-09-27
, 02:40
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Posts: 50 |
Thanked: 135 times |
Joined on Nov 2012
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#594
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Originally Posted by Fabry
no. nobody forces you to buy Neo900. you will not be punished if you won't buy it. TCTF will not kill your kitten or burn your house. you will not be banned on forums.
And we must purchase a 200–250E HW at 500–600E to make you more rich ?
and by the way: do you really think that boards will design themselves? design working board for Neo900 requires alot of efforts. why authors should do it "for free"? see, they will give us resulting schematics for free (i.e. result of their work) — isn't that enough?
but if you can do the same project and beat the price — go on!
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2013-09-27
, 02:55
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Posts: 2,222 |
Thanked: 12,651 times |
Joined on Mar 2010
@ SOL 3
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#595
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don't feed the troll! obviously clueless rambling, the guy is void of any clue whatsoever about price of hardware, even about price of publicly offered modules. Not to think about him ever having heard about reflow soldering lines and how to set them up and adjust them (some 10 to 20 boards of junk may fall off the end of the line until calibrated) or production validation runs and yield (oops, the calibration is different during full moon, 25% junk. Poorly soldered USB ports on N900, anybody? Not like only idiots like we suffer from such oopses). BTW so far I'm not earning a single cent on this, I just invest 100% of my time into it, plus a little bit of my own money to get components and stuff to analyze them and design the Neo900. But sure, we could sell each device for 50 bucks more and that would earn Nikolaus and me an amazing ~800EUR/month. We might consider something like this when we reach maybe the 1000 units, and thus could sell the devices for 50EUR less, we might actually use those 50EUR less expense per device and instead spend them on pizza and coke.
Last edited by joerg_rw; 2013-09-27 at 03:44.
__________________
Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
Hildon Foundation Council inaugural member.
MCe.V. foundation member
EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
aka "techstaff" - the guys who keep your infra running - Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
IRC(freenode): DocScrutinizer*
First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
Hildon Foundation Council inaugural member.
MCe.V. foundation member
EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
aka "techstaff" - the guys who keep your infra running - Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
IRC(freenode): DocScrutinizer*
First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
Last edited by joerg_rw; 2013-09-27 at 03:44.
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2013-09-27
, 03:19
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Posts: 1,789 |
Thanked: 1,699 times |
Joined on Mar 2010
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#596
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It better be some damn high quality Colombian coke 
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I'm flattered
Originally Posted by mscion
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to mscion For This Useful Post
I vote that Kangal replace Elop!
I'm flattered
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2013-09-27
, 06:19
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Posts: 53 |
Thanked: 24 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
@ Finland, Rauma
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#597
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Originally Posted by joerg_rw
I didn't say Ubuntu Edge. I said phone with similar specs.
Ahhh yes. I see. And where exactly is ubuntu edge available now? ;-)
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...77#post1376477
I know that S4 doesn't have same specs, but you can have that for under 700 Eur (and it has Android apps as bonus).
Actually: Where exactly is Neo900 available now? ;-)
Don't get me wrong, I really love the idea and would buy one (without casing) if the price would be reasonable (700 Eur for a phone upgrade isn't that for me).
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2013-09-27
, 06:37
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Posts: 53 |
Thanked: 24 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
@ Finland, Rauma
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#598
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joerg_rw: Do you have a pre-order system somewhere or do you use this poll as one?
(Like Ubuntu Edge had?) :-)
That could be a good way to get funding for those boards. You could have those same price levels you have now in this poll. People could then pledge to this.
(Like Ubuntu Edge had?) :-)
That could be a good way to get funding for those boards. You could have those same price levels you have now in this poll. People could then pledge to this.
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2013-09-27
, 06:39
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Thanked: 20 times |
Joined on Jun 2010
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#599
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Originally Posted by wolke
Well if you're pointing out that I distrust the project, you've got your perception about my opinion about the pricing completely wrong. I have no distrust, and like I said I'm only uncomfortable about the price. 700 Euro's is way out of purchase range for just a board upgrade as per my opinion and I believe people can voice their opinions. I don't see how this brings the factor of distrust in context. Also the vague perception again that you make out of the blue that one who compares on costs wont have a technological knowledge is again out of the box.
so, in reading dareaper's uninformed complaints, i see one very useful insight; dareaper distrusts this project.
first, i personally have full faith in the ethics and technical ability of several of the most heavily involved people, simply from their dedication over the last bajillion years.
i also really like the bald transparency of the price vs manufacturing costs, and the up-to-the-minute guesstimates instead of arbitrary numbers to be refined immediately before asking for the dough.
however, i think it might be good to have a prominent place for non-tech folks that specifically discusses things like volunteerism/compensation, costs/price, sales/profits, etc.
preferably with at least one pretty chart with soothing numbers, and phrases like 'labour of love' bandied about.
in general, i get the feeling that there are MANY folks who wont take the time to grok this project in its fullness, but are nevertheless excited about an n900++. grabbing some of those folks and getting them on board might be the difference between success and failure.
Originally Posted by rcolistete
I agree I haven't read the whole thread, but then I was just pointing out towards neo900's cost and wanted to know why it was priced high and I got to know the reason for it. Also if you missed reading my previous post, I did mention that I really like how the efforts were being put in the project and that's how I conveyed my contribution by appreciating the efforts.. I really don't mind contributing and like I've mentioned my part of the discussion was only on the cost factor. I contributed by suggesting if the price could be reduced and also wanted to know why it was priced high. Also there's always a point when you can raise the same question on two different sources.
So you don't read this thread, repeat some unnecessary question again, don't like the obvious answer, then say no contributing words at all, for this community project ?
While the CEO's of Apple, Google, Microsoft, Facebook, etc, lie each day about lack of privacy, NSA, etc. And people don't show any criticism against them.
Lessons :
1) be a lyar, billionaire.
2) don't be honest and don't try to contribute in community projects.
Lessons:
1) Accept what has been contributed.
2) Kindly try to bring out the accurate reason of how honesty has been brought into picture here.
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2013-09-27
, 06:49
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Posts: 986 |
Thanked: 1,526 times |
Joined on Jul 2010
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#600
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svalavuo, the point is that delivering a phone with ubuntu edge specs at $800 requires selling $32M worth of devices. similarly, you cant expect a device that will sell 200 units to compete price-per-spec with any multi-million-selling hardware manufacturer.
also, you are about the 95th person to recommend that they have a kickstarter.
also, you are about the 95th person to recommend that they have a kickstarter.
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~ teleshoes ~
~ teleshoes ~
Last edited by jalyst; 2013-09-27 at 00:19. Reason: typo