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2013-12-03
, 08:37
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#72
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Originally Posted by jalyst
Do you mean to say a new community infra which is for both Jolla and Maemo4-6 users/devs? Was this another of those ideas that were posted due to you lacking sleep? You even want a new NFP handling it so why duplicate efforts when one NFP and community led infra already exists?
Personally I think it's good idea to make a clean break...
It makes more sense to have a completely new community infra that's closely modelled on maemo.org, but without all the baggage & interest groups.
It gives Jolla & us (Maemo 4-6x users/devs) the chance to start completely from scratch, & :. carefully select only components that we think are most optimal for our interaction/support needs.
That doesn't mean there has to be a complete separation, I think there should still be syndication on as many data points as is feasible/practical.
To add to duplication efforts, you also want syndication? I like to know what are the interest groups that trouble you around here and what's the guarantee something like won't happen at your desired nirvana? Sigh... Either you don't remember FMC or just are one of those people who believe a higher version number == better...
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2013-12-03
, 08:39
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#73
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@stezz, IMO you're misinterpreting joerg's rough style. That post wasn't meant to scare you out in a "you'll fail" kind of way, but rather welcome you here and save you the effort of trying to gather a community which is actually as hard as he describes. Many other forums exist, very very few of them are actually as tight as a community as this one.
It's like trying to create an ecosystem, a forest. (literal use of the word ecosystem) I'm certain there are man-made ecosystems in labs and parks, but you can't create the amazon rainforest. It is just naturally formed because of the conditions there. The conditions here created a vibrant community, which as Joerg said, even Nokia recognized and welcomed into the maemo world. We're inviting you to do the same.
When you have this kind of support, it's a shame to drop it and go elsewhere. Of course it is possible to build another community, but because it is a challenge, it doesn't mean you actually have to do it :-)
I also think that being independent gives this place a special something, and that's the reason we are still here after nokia left the building, and now we get to have maybe for the first time ever, two devices to call our own at the same time.
The maemo community council does all it's discussions in the open in the logged channel #maemo-meeting over at freenode, so the one does not exclude the other. It just might facilitate technical discussions about branding, CNAMES and whatnot.
It's like trying to create an ecosystem, a forest. (literal use of the word ecosystem) I'm certain there are man-made ecosystems in labs and parks, but you can't create the amazon rainforest. It is just naturally formed because of the conditions there. The conditions here created a vibrant community, which as Joerg said, even Nokia recognized and welcomed into the maemo world. We're inviting you to do the same.
When you have this kind of support, it's a shame to drop it and go elsewhere. Of course it is possible to build another community, but because it is a challenge, it doesn't mean you actually have to do it :-)
I also think that being independent gives this place a special something, and that's the reason we are still here after nokia left the building, and now we get to have maybe for the first time ever, two devices to call our own at the same time.
I think the best way to do this is in the open.Don't hesitate to contact the community council for ideas and options.
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Proud coding competition 2012 winner: ρcam
My other apps: speedcrunch N9 N900 Jolla –– contactlaunch –– timenow
Nemo UX blog: Grog
My website: qwazix.com
My job: oob
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2013-12-03
, 08:54
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#74
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Originally Posted by thedead1440
No, of course not, I meant a new one for Mer & derivatives, Maemo 4-6 users/devs already have their perfectly good infra.
Do you mean to say a new community infra which is for both Jolla and Maemo4-6 users/devs?
You even want a new NFP handling it so why duplicate efforts when one NFP and community led infra already exists?
To add to duplication efforts, you also want syndication?
I like to know what are the interest groups that trouble you around here and what's the guarantee something like won't happen at your desired nirvana? Sigh... Either you don't remember FMC or just are one of those people who believe a higher version number == better...
That is often a motivating factor for people protesting against change...
I find it odd how meego.com is often quoted as some kind of "epic disaster", it was only that way because Nokia pulled the rug out on it all very prematurely.
If the money train kept coming, maemo.org ultimately would've withered, & everyone now would be saying how wonderful meego.com always was.
Originally Posted by qwazix
There is something to be said for the ethos of maemo.org, undoubtedly there's something special there, but I think it can be replicated, perhaps even improved upon.
When you have this kind of support, it's a shame to drop it and go elsewhere. Of course it is possible to build another community, but because it is a challenge, it doesn't mean you actually have to do it :-)I also think that being independent gives this place a special something, and that's the reason we are still here after nokia left the building, and now we get to have maybe for the first time ever, two devices to call our own at the same time.
And I think both communities would be all the stronger for it when they're more tightly targeted towards their own sw stacks, but still closely cooperating.
Last edited by jalyst; 2013-12-03 at 09:16.
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2013-12-03
, 09:03
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#75
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I can imagine this being relevant to Branding (Jolla) as well?
I.e., maemo != Jolla, which is confusing for average-joe users of Jolla phone.
I.e., maemo != Jolla, which is confusing for average-joe users of Jolla phone.
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BWizz - best N9 bookmark editing tool! Check it out ->BWizz for Harmattan
LINKer - transform your N9's home view in a Desktop, give it the freedom it deserves! -> LINKer for Harmattan
QuickBar - Can't find the app you used yesterday in your overcrowded Home Screen? Want access to the QuickLaunch bar even in the home screen? QuickBar for Harmattan
If you like our work, and would like to support via PayPal : users.giulietta@gmail.com
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2013-12-03
, 09:52
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@ SOL 3
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#76
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Originally Posted by jalyst
Dream on! You must be living in a differnet universe than I do. FMC got shut down because it was dead. And I honestly can't see a significant number of tmo users abandoning this forum in favor of FMC, no matter how much money anybody would throw at the latter. This forum is NOT about one single device only, and what makes you think all N900/N810/N800 users would vanish here (and on garaghe, and builder, and wiki, and...) and thus leave this place withering?
...it was only that way because Nokia pulled the rug out on it all very prematurely.
If the money train kept coming, maemo.org ultimately would've withered, & everyone now would be saying how wonderful meego.com always was.
BTW a great argument why Jolla (with their limited resources, as Stezz said) should create their own infra, when FMC only died because Nokia not keeping "the money train running"
__________________
Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
Hildon Foundation Council inaugural member.
MCe.V. foundation member
EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
aka "techstaff" - the guys who keep your infra running - Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
IRC(freenode): DocScrutinizer*
First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
Hildon Foundation Council inaugural member.
MCe.V. foundation member
EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
aka "techstaff" - the guys who keep your infra running - Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
IRC(freenode): DocScrutinizer*
First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
Last edited by joerg_rw; 2013-12-03 at 10:00.
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2013-12-03
, 10:02
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#77
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Originally Posted by joerg_rw
FMC was dead because the project was (mostly) dead, Jim....
Dream on! You must be living in a differnet universe than I do. FMC got shut down because it was dead. And I honestly can't see a significant number of tmo users abandoning this forum in favor of FMC, no matter how much money anybody would throw at the latter. This forum is NOT about one single device only, and what makes you think all N900/N810/N800 users would vanish here (and on garaghe, and builder, and wiki, and...) and thus leave this place withering?
Withered perhaps was a poor choice of words, but TMO probably would've become more of a legacy place, logically speaking.
Especially after the N9/950, 1-2 more Harmattan devices, & then MeeGo-proper devices* had been in the market for a while.
That's in no way meant to denigrate maemo.org, it's just stating the obvious...
BTW a great argument why Jolla (with their limited resources, as Stezz said) should create their own infra, when FMC only died because Nokia not keeping "the money train running"
In the early days I think that'd hinder it more than help it, but that should be the longer-term ideal IMO.
Especially if it's not Sailfish-centric infra, which I don't think it should be, I think slightly broader like MeR-based is better.
*which was all on the road-map before the guillotine was lowered
Last edited by jalyst; 2013-12-03 at 10:31. Reason: typo
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2013-12-03
, 11:36
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Posts: 2,222 |
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Joined on Mar 2010
@ SOL 3
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#78
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Originally Posted by qwazix
We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too.
...
When you have this kind of support, it's a shame to drop it and go elsewhere. Of course it is possible to build another community, but because it is a challenge, it doesn't mean you actually have to do it :-)
__________________
Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
Hildon Foundation Council inaugural member.
MCe.V. foundation member
EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
aka "techstaff" - the guys who keep your infra running - Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
IRC(freenode): DocScrutinizer*
First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
Hildon Foundation Council inaugural member.
MCe.V. foundation member
EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
aka "techstaff" - the guys who keep your infra running - Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
IRC(freenode): DocScrutinizer*
First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
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2013-12-03
, 12:09
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Posts: 1,055 |
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@ Norway
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#79
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Originally Posted by qwazix
Personal $0.02 (I don't know if any of this applies, it's just how I see the situation): these are not mutually exclusive goals. Just because another .. "thing" is set up somewhere does not change the soul of maemo.org. The internet (& ownership base of mobile devices) is a vast one, and the way communities usually develop is by being useful to their target audience. It is certainly true that maemo.org is well suited to the tinker/hacker audience, but that does not necessarily mean it is the best medium to engage with everyone across the spectrum of device users.
When you have this kind of support, it's a shame to drop it and go elsewhere. Of course it is possible to build another community, but because it is a challenge, it doesn't mean you actually have to do it :-)
I certainly wouldn't stop reading & posting here just because there is "somewhere else" to go, and I expect the same to be true of a lot of different people.
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i'm a Qt expert and former Jolla sailor (forever sailing, in spirit).
if you like, read more about me.
if you find me entertaining, or useful, thank me. if you don't, then tell me why.
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2013-12-03
, 12:18
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@ Germany
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#80
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Originally Posted by stezz
I think the best way to do this is in the open.
Stezz
Well yeah the last time "behind doors" didn't work out that well, I only know stories... but I was more into "proper" channels - the community has a council doing the heavy lifting in the open, like being said.
OK, I understand you want your own little island and make your own mistakes. I will never say impossible or call it a problem, I name it challenge. There are already 10ish communities Jolla centered out there... some more or less.
We are not centered, we are unlike (I have a dragon and am not afraid to use it!) isn't that what you like?
(Speaking of it... Facebook's SailfishOS representation curves in like a little boy in his teens sometimes.)
Anyway, I am all in! People are scared that we loose google indexing if we change the Arecord.... loose the design etc.
We should hire a donkey to clean the wiki and put it straight...
I'd love to make all the landingpage in Sailfish-blue adding orange hints here and there and merge it to make it both old maemo and thriving future Jolla/SailfishOS, but that needs to be discussed properly and probably negotiated as sometimes it seems I am the only one who wants to dust off our Nokia past and evolve to Neo+Sailfish Community with Maemo roots still present but not our front door anymore.
Your user-base is already here, your thrilling developers have signed up to this forum years ago, some being silent for a while now or just coming back the last weeks (had to help with password recoveries a lot lately, most of them coders not being here for years but pre-ordered Jolla and start to login here as there is no other community website yet)
Chem|st
PS If you really want to start fresh I'd like to offer my help anyway, if it is ok that I have my roots over here.
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Primarily as a goodwill gesture, because many folks likely to become (or who are) Mer-based users/devs, are still active Maemo 4x-6x users/devs, & (in many cases) are likely to remains so.
So such help would be appreciated, pretty obvious stuff really.
Last edited by jalyst; 2013-12-03 at 08:16.