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Poll: How much would you be willing to pay for a Neo900 (complete device) with TI DM3730 1GHz/512M-RAM/1GB
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How much would you be willing to pay for a Neo900 (complete device) with TI DM3730 1GHz/512M-RAM/1GB

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Alecsandru's Avatar
Alecsandru is offline Alecsandru
2013-12-05 , 21:45
Posts: 439 | Thanked: 282 times | Joined on Oct 2012
#1451
i have a question : can you run fremantle on omap4 , sgx blobs?
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viktor80 is offline viktor80
2013-12-06 , 10:41
Posts: 18 | Thanked: 15 times | Joined on Nov 2013 @ Hungary
#1452
If the external keyboard drains too much power, its an alternative to use it with an usb hub that has its own power source. I even found a topic somewhere, where someone made a tablet stand, which charged the tablet and functioned at the same time as self-powered usb hub for the otg stuff like keyboard, mouse, external hard drive etc.
 

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endsormeans is offline endsormeans
2013-12-06 , 20:08
Posts: 3,141 | Thanked: 8,164 times | Joined on Feb 2013 @ From my Gabriola Island hermitage, near the Edge of the World
#1453
Originally Posted by viktor80 View Post
If the external keyboard drains too much power, its an alternative to use it with an usb hub that has its own power source. I even found a topic somewhere, where someone made a tablet stand, which charged the tablet and functioned at the same time as self-powered usb hub for the otg stuff like keyboard, mouse, external hard drive etc.
I do remem. seeing the topic too...I just can't remem. where....can't find it either...did find the great topic for the n800 laptop adapter...know that one...but that isn't it....hmm ...If you find it ....post a link to it ..I'd like to go over it again.
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Owner of :
1-n770 (in retirement), 3-n800's / 3-n810's (still in daily use), 5-n900's ((3 are flawless, 1 loose usb ( parts), 1 has no telephony (parts))
3-nexus 5's : 1 w/ Floko Pie 9.1 (running beautifully) waiting for Stable Droid 10 rom, 1 w/ ̶Ubuntu Touch, 1 with Maru OS (intend maemo leste when ready)
1/2 - neo900 pre- "purchased" in 2013. N̶o̶w̶ ̶A̶w̶a̶i̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶r̶e̶f̶u̶n̶d̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶c̶e̶s̶s̶ ̶l̶a̶s̶t̶ ̶f̶e̶w̶ ̶y̶e̶a̶r̶s̶ - neo900 start up declared officially dead -
Lost invested funds.

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kingoddball is offline kingoddball
2013-12-06 , 23:15
Posts: 1,187 | Thanked: 816 times | Joined on Apr 2010 @ Australia
#1454
Originally Posted by Alecsandru View Post
i have a question : can you run fremantle on omap4 , sgx blobs?
Yep.
Hard to do (I failed twice).

http://www.omappedia.com/wiki/Maemo_Getting_Started
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biketool is offline biketool
2013-12-07 , 18:08
Posts: 1,431 | Thanked: 2,630 times | Joined on Jan 2011 @ Touring
#1455
I know I mentioned it in this thread a while back re: shoehorning a pager chip into the neo900
I sent the idea past Richard Stallman and he sounds supportive to the point that he might begin carrying a mobile phone,(massive PR coup) he has not carryed one so far on principle. I am going to send him a link to this thread.
 

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biketool is offline biketool
2013-12-07 , 18:13
Posts: 1,431 | Thanked: 2,630 times | Joined on Jan 2011 @ Touring
#1456
Is the modem chip designed so that the nothing can alter the radio modem's own software? This program should not be updatable.
This because any NSA, KGB, New Zelander snoop force, or LAPD contractor with the right information from the manufacturer could upload a nasty custom modem firmware to do bad stuff even if the modem can't force its way with the main processor. Is there a way to checksum the modem firmware every time we boot?
 

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joerg_rw is offline joerg_rw
2013-12-07 , 18:27
Posts: 2,222 | Thanked: 12,651 times | Joined on Mar 2010 @ SOL 3
#1457
Originally Posted by biketool View Post
Is the modem chip designed so that the nothing can alter the radio modem's own software? This program should not be updatable.
This because any NSA, KGB, New Zelander snoop force, or LAPD contractor with the right information from the manufacturer could upload a nasty custom modem firmware to do bad stuff even if the modem can't force its way with the main processor. Is there a way to checksum the modem firmware every time we boot?
No, we do better than this - read below why we think so
.
We will provide modem firmware update via USERLAND flasher program, and as you can conclude form this there is no way any "NSA, KGB, New Zelander snoop force, or LAPD contractor" could run such flasher program on Linux APE (aka the linux computer system) without user's permission.
So we disagree with Mr. Stallman here, we think we overfulfill the rationale behind his requirement, and we won't change our design/modem-choice to restrict user's freedom to update modem firmware, just to comply with FSF/Stallman.

BTW NO modem "chip" will ever be designed the way Stallman demands, since modem firmware generally lives in flash which always has some means to get altered, whether via JTAG or UART/USB or even OTA. It's up to careful evaluation by the hw designers of the complete system to make sure nobody will unsolicitedly change the modem firmware in a way so it does stuff we don't want it to do while the user has no idea about the fact that it does. Neo900, while not allowing checksum over modem firmware (we have no read access, modem is too separated for this), will implement other hw means to tightly monitor and restrict what modem can do and actually does - up to the level of tracing every power-up/-down/reboot, checking power consumption, blocking GPS antenna thus defeating any unsolicited GPS usage, and even detecting every single RF transmission the modem does.

Bottom line: Mr Stallman demands a modem firmware fixed in ROM, trusting in the genuine firmware not already being rogue - while Neo900 offers means to supervise the modem so it can't do any nasty without "us" noticing that and concluding that the firmware isn't doing what it's supposed to do.

cheers
jOERG
Last edited by joerg_rw; 2013-12-07 at 19:38.
 

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biketool is offline biketool
2013-12-07 , 18:38
Posts: 1,431 | Thanked: 2,630 times | Joined on Jan 2011 @ Touring
#1458
BTW that was my very goofy paraphrase of what RMS had written, I think his largest concern was OTA reprogramming but I cant speak for him, I did invite him to this thread. Otherwise I think the Neo900 met his listed criteria as long as it can work without blobs in one of the possible OSs.

He liked the idea of an intergrated pager receiver for incoming contact and I bet that can be done through the plug-in hobby interface, think how small the board was in the old Motorola belt pagers in the late 80s.
Last edited by biketool; 2013-12-07 at 18:42.
 

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dos1 is offline dos1
2013-12-07 , 18:47
Posts: 257 | Thanked: 2,053 times | Joined on Sep 2010 @ Warsaw, Poland
#1459
Originally Posted by joerg_rw View Post
No, we will provide modem firmware update via USERLAND flasher program, and as you can conclude form this there is no way any "NSA, KGB, New Zelander snoop force, or LAPD contractor" could run such flasher program on Linux APE (aka the linux computer system) without user's permission.
So we disagree with Mr. Stallman here and we won't change our design/modem-choice to restrict user's freedom to update modem firmware, just to comply with FSF/Stallman.

BTW NO modem "chip" will ever be designed the way Stallman demands, since modem firmware generally lives in flash which always has some means to get altered, whether via JTAG or UART/USB or even OTA. It's up to careful evaluation by the hw designers of the complete system to make sure nobody will unsolicitedly change the modem firmware in a way so it does stuff we don't want it to do while the user has no idea about the fact that it does. Neo900, while not allowing checksum over modem firmware (we have no read access), will implement other hw means to tightly momitor and restrict what modem can do - up to the level of tracing every power-up/down and even every single RF transmission the modem does.

cheers
jOERG
In other words, we believe that the modem should be seen as a black box and should be threated as one by hw designers, sw developers and users. Trusting a black box without any control is insane regardless of upgrade possibilities (the firmware may contain malware right from the very beginning, how would you know?), and with such control any bad sides of possibility to upgrade don't matter anymore.

Anyway, while I understand and fully respect Richard Stallman and his concerns, IMHO it's better to provide the freedom to upgrade the firmware to the user. It gives some small hope for some free replacement in the future, even if it's insanely hard to do due to deep "tivoisation" of practically any modem available these days (not that it would be possible to use it under most of legal regulations anyway but one still can come up with some legitimate and legal lab usecases). If every phone would work that way we wouldn't have now projects like OsmocomBB, which works for instance on upgradable GSM module of Openmoko Neo Freerunner.

(for a long time there was only non-free flasher available for Calypso, but recently some REd one popped up, so it's now possible to reflash Freerunner modem with free firmware using free flasher. It wouldn't be possible at all if Freerunner would comply to FSF rules since its release)
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Long term Openmoko supporter. Owner of two Neo Freerunners, a few N900s and some others too.
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joerg_rw is offline joerg_rw
2013-12-08 , 07:10
Posts: 2,222 | Thanked: 12,651 times | Joined on Mar 2010 @ SOL 3
#1460
Multi-touch (ok 2-touch) anybody? With rotate and pinch.
http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/...eId=0112698268
 

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