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2008-02-11
, 14:11
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Posts: 283 |
Thanked: 60 times |
Joined on Nov 2005
@ It's dark in here. I hear laughing.
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#3
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Originally Posted by flareup
'Cause it doesn't work right, yet.
WHY IS THIS NOT BUILT IN AS STANDARD?
I love host mode capability, but I am willing to put up with the stupid error messages that don't mean anything. When I plug in my keyboard, why do I get an error message about file systems not being compatible? I don't know..and I don't care. Maemo has often been released with both supported/advertised features and built-in features that don't work quite right yet.
Plus, the developers at Nokia learn from all the stuff Maemo users/developers come up with.
I imagine that host mode and proper switching between devices will be builtin and advertised when it works correctly. Next release? At the present, I'm just glad it's here, error messages and all.
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2008-02-11
, 14:11
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Posts: 5,478 |
Thanked: 5,222 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ St. Petersburg, FL
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#4
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EDIT: See above, too.
Couple reasons, primarily, it's because it's beyond the knowledge and understanding of most average users, especially when you factor in getting juice to the USB devices. Making it a supported feature doesn't end with tossing the code in there, user support isn't particularly cheap. It's also now entirely unnecessary because the N810 has micro-USB for which OTG cables are fairly easy to find.
Besides, the community solution wasn't particularly hard. So why complain?
Couple reasons, primarily, it's because it's beyond the knowledge and understanding of most average users, especially when you factor in getting juice to the USB devices. Making it a supported feature doesn't end with tossing the code in there, user support isn't particularly cheap. It's also now entirely unnecessary because the N810 has micro-USB for which OTG cables are fairly easy to find.
Besides, the community solution wasn't particularly hard. So why complain?
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2008-02-11
, 14:30
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Posts: 1,310 |
Thanked: 820 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
@ Irving, TX
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#5
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I don't have "official" answer, but can add to speculation... 
On N800 the USB port is mini-B jack that accepts a standard mini-B plug. This kind of connector is designed for "peripheral only" devices. The USB hardware in N800 is capable for USB-OTG functionality.
Based on the N800 connector it can only operate in peripheral mode without bending the USB specification rules... (and you know Nokia do not want to bend standards... it may cause (legal) troubles...)
On N810 the USB port is micro-AB jack. (Isn't it? I didn't verify when writing this post, and I do not have a device yet to check by myself.) This is a special connector that can accept both micro-A and micro-B plugs. This kind of connector is needed in USB-OTG compliant devices. So, the N810 connector hardware is "up to the task" to behave as host and peripheral, depending on the application.
However, because the N810 is OTG compliant it does this auto-switching between modes automatically. It doesn't need extra software to switch between host and peripheral modes! If two USB-OTG compliant devices are connected to each other they will negotiate the roles between themselves automagically. No need for any scripts to force the roles...
So, my final "guess" is that Nokia wants to stick with the standard and do not want to release anything non-standard implementation that may cause trouble... But we, as a community, can build and release any kind of "hacks" to enable all kind of non-standard features, and don't need to worry about consequences.
Just my 2 cents... Feel free to disagree or correct me if I got some facts incorrect.
On N800 the USB port is mini-B jack that accepts a standard mini-B plug. This kind of connector is designed for "peripheral only" devices. The USB hardware in N800 is capable for USB-OTG functionality.
Based on the N800 connector it can only operate in peripheral mode without bending the USB specification rules... (and you know Nokia do not want to bend standards... it may cause (legal) troubles...)
On N810 the USB port is micro-AB jack. (Isn't it? I didn't verify when writing this post, and I do not have a device yet to check by myself.) This is a special connector that can accept both micro-A and micro-B plugs. This kind of connector is needed in USB-OTG compliant devices. So, the N810 connector hardware is "up to the task" to behave as host and peripheral, depending on the application.
However, because the N810 is OTG compliant it does this auto-switching between modes automatically. It doesn't need extra software to switch between host and peripheral modes! If two USB-OTG compliant devices are connected to each other they will negotiate the roles between themselves automagically. No need for any scripts to force the roles...
So, my final "guess" is that Nokia wants to stick with the standard and do not want to release anything non-standard implementation that may cause trouble... But we, as a community, can build and release any kind of "hacks" to enable all kind of non-standard features, and don't need to worry about consequences.
Just my 2 cents... Feel free to disagree or correct me if I got some facts incorrect.
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2008-02-11
, 15:37
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Posts: 1,361 |
Thanked: 115 times |
Joined on Oct 2005
@ Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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#6
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I'm stuck in the past so maybe someone can correct me on this... in order to mount a thumbdrive you still need a USB power hack, don't you? (I've got a 770, dunno about the N800/N810.)
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2008-02-11
, 15:48
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Posts: 5,478 |
Thanked: 5,222 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ St. Petersburg, FL
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#7
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Originally Posted by Hedgecore
770, yes, N800/N810, no.
I'm stuck in the past so maybe someone can correct me on this... in order to mount a thumbdrive you still need a USB power hack, don't you? (I've got a 770, dunno about the N800/N810.)
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2008-02-11
, 15:52
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Posts: 643 |
Thanked: 628 times |
Joined on Mar 2007
@ Seattle (or thereabouts)
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#8
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AFAIK, the N8x0 is capable of supplying up to 200mA (or is it 100mA?) to USB device plugged in. This will be enough for *most* USB flash drives...but not necessarily all of them.
-John
-John
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2008-02-21
, 10:19
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Posts: 225 |
Thanked: 68 times |
Joined on Feb 2006
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#9
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Originally Posted by Mara
I don't have "official" answer, but can add to speculation...
On N800 the USB port is mini-B jack that accepts a standard mini-B plug. This kind of connector is designed for "peripheral only" devices. The USB hardware in N800 is capable for USB-OTG functionality.
Based on the N800 connector it can only operate in peripheral mode without bending the USB specification rules... (and you know Nokia do not want to bend standards... it may cause (legal) troubles...)
On N810 the USB port is micro-AB jack. (Isn't it? I didn't verify when writing this post, and I do not have a device yet to check by myself.) This is a special connector that can accept both micro-A and micro-B plugs. This kind of connector is needed in USB-OTG compliant devices. So, the N810 connector hardware is "up to the task" to behave as host and peripheral, depending on the application.
However, because the N810 is OTG compliant it does this auto-switching between modes automatically. It doesn't need extra software to switch between host and peripheral modes! If two USB-OTG compliant devices are connected to each other they will negotiate the roles between themselves automagically. No need for any scripts to force the roles...
So, my final "guess" is that Nokia wants to stick with the standard and do not want to release anything non-standard implementation that may cause trouble... But we, as a community, can build and release any kind of "hacks" to enable all kind of non-standard features, and don't need to worry about consequences.
Just my 2 cents... Feel free to disagree or correct me if I got some facts incorrect.
Thanks very much indeed for that Mara, a succinct explaination that makes perfect sense! cheers!!
Never having touched xterm or become root before I finally did it to get the USB host finctionality.
Mara's work here
http://www.internettablettalk.com/fo...0&postcount=12
and pipeline's here
http://www.internettablettalk.com/fo...emelFM2&page=3
made it quite painless.
But now it's done, and there's the two icons in extras that simply need to be clicked to make a thumbdrive usable, it makes me wonder even more
WHY IS THIS NOT BUILT IN AS STANDARD?
Really, can any of you with nokia connections, or business experience in this field, tell me why?
I simply don't understand Nokia here - the device has the functionality, the software is not a problem, yet a user has to junmp through hoops to get a simple (yet so important) thing like being able to plug in a thumbdrive into the device and use it.
My n800 goes with me wherever I go, whether to the shops or to another country, it's a wonderful thing that seems to be deliberately crippled.
I've always disliked Apple's habit of releasing a cut-down ipod when the next gen (colour screen, video, mor ememory etc) is always ready to go and pick consumers pockets a second time.
Thisa doesn't seem to be the case with the NITs, but it just seems to me that something like USB Host is exactly what casual users/buyers would see as a good thing, should be enbaled by default.
I genuinely would like to know if anyone has an explaination of this