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2014-02-13
, 15:52
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Posts: 2,355 |
Thanked: 5,249 times |
Joined on Jan 2009
@ Barcelona
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#42
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Originally Posted by coderus
It is often the case that "new encrypted protocols" developed by for-profit companies tend to be more smoke-and-mirrors than actual cryptography.
and i'm stopping answering in this thread, because i see many peoples are paranoid and dont ever try to read. all new encypted protocols = evil. datacenters = evil. OTR and XMPP are god bless.
To deny that would be naive.
And why does my data need to be stored in datacenters I don't control, when it can be stored in datacenters I control? That's more secure than most cryptography.
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2014-02-14
, 10:05
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Posts: 461 |
Thanked: 358 times |
Joined on May 2010
@ Bilbao (Basque Country [Spain])
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#43
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Originally Posted by javispedro
Because free software community members have friends and family that don't care about software freedom or privacy so if they want to communicate with others, they need to use widely used IM software. You are lucky if all your contacts use jabber, but it's not the case of most of us. If the best world is not possible, it's good to at least have a better one, isn't it?
And why would free software community fork _their_ software, when there are existing and working clients and protocols that are just better? And the existing ones even have open server implementations!
Originally Posted by javispedro
Telegram clients, protocol, and API are open. Servers are not open. Promised privacy is fine. Obviously you can distrust what they say, but ¿why you trust the jabber server you use? Do you know personally to all people that have access to that server? Have you read the code and monitored the binary generation and use of the jabber server software you use? If you can't trust anybody and/or anything...
Well, Telegram is not open, not widely used (yet), and hardly privacy respectful. In which way does the situation improve????? I just don't see it.
Why anybody will take the care to promise privacy and openess, while most people use the less open and less privacy protector of the IM softwares (Whatsapp)? They just want to get the data of the paranoids and free software community members? Are we so important to make that evil movement to get our precious data? Maybe , just maybe, other reason could be that they are saying the truth and doing their best...
Last edited by malkavian; 2014-02-14 at 19:48.
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2014-02-14
, 10:21
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Posts: 164 |
Thanked: 64 times |
Joined on May 2013
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#44
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Edward Snowden is everywhere 
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2014-02-15
, 03:04
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Posts: 113 |
Thanked: 334 times |
Joined on Oct 2010
@ Argentina
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#46
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Sorry for my absence, I haven't forgot the project, just stashed for a while.
Some updates on what I've done so far:
The official libraries provided by telegram are in java, but java isn't the ideal language to develop this project on maemo. This telegram client that I managed to compile is not meant to be a library so is not quite straightforward to reuse the code. I've made some tweaks to this telegram client and I been able to use it as a library in a Qt C++ project, and show a list of contacts in a gui, but only that for now. As soon as this project takes shape I'll upload the code to github, meanwhile it's just too messy to share.
Some updates on what I've done so far:
The official libraries provided by telegram are in java, but java isn't the ideal language to develop this project on maemo. This telegram client that I managed to compile is not meant to be a library so is not quite straightforward to reuse the code. I've made some tweaks to this telegram client and I been able to use it as a library in a Qt C++ project, and show a list of contacts in a gui, but only that for now. As soon as this project takes shape I'll upload the code to github, meanwhile it's just too messy to share.
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2014-02-15
, 04:11
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Posts: 5,028 |
Thanked: 8,613 times |
Joined on Mar 2011
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#47
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Originally Posted by malkavian
Wrong thinking. This way, you're embracing *worse* methods of doing things, getting at the same level that uneducated and clueless folks (no matter if those are actually friends, family, or whatever). Education is they key - if you have friends and family that use things hurting their privacy, morally, it would be good thing to at least warn them and explain why it's bad thing to do.
Because free software community members have friends and family that don't care about software freedom or privacy so if they want to communicate with others, they need to use widely used IM software.
If they don't listen - well, their problem. But it doesn't mean you must jump into acid pool, just because everyone else is doing it. Personally, I respect others decision to sue whatever crap they like, but I also demand them to respect my choice of using different things. So, if they want to contact me, nothing stop them from signing up on jabber - I'll gladly help with the process.
Someone, who would be above to sign-up in transparent and privacy-safe service to stay in touch with me - because he is too used to skype/whatsapp/whatever, and ignore fact that not everyone like giving their privacy away for free - could hardly be called a friend.
/Estel
// Edit
I don't need to mention that often, after getting accustomed with FOSS tools even if just to stay in touch with me, such person gradually stops using crappy services, and starts convincing others to do it "right way"?
It was the case with Skype vs VoIP. suddenly, my whole family uses VoIP (and just few years earlier, I couldn't convince some of them to abandon Skype, even by "brute force" ) and I haven't heard "Stupid questions" about skype account name since veeery long time.
__________________
N900's aluminum backcover / body replacement
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N900's HDMI-Out
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Camera cover MOD
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Measure battery's real capacity on-device
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TrueCrypt 7.1 | ereswap | bnf
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Hardware's mods research is costly. To support my work, please consider donating. Thank You!
N900's aluminum backcover / body replacement
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N900's HDMI-Out
-
Camera cover MOD
-
Measure battery's real capacity on-device
-
TrueCrypt 7.1 | ereswap | bnf
-
Hardware's mods research is costly. To support my work, please consider donating. Thank You!
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2014-02-15
, 14:20
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Posts: 461 |
Thanked: 358 times |
Joined on May 2010
@ Bilbao (Basque Country [Spain])
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#48
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Originally Posted by Estel
Done.
if you have friends and family that use things hurting their privacy, morally, it would be good thing to at least warn them and explain why it's bad thing to do.
Originally Posted by Estel
And mine... They are sending my phone number to Whatsapp inc...
If they don't listen - well, their problem.
Originally Posted by Estel
This is why I use a whatsapp client (Yappari) with another phone number and sync just the people I know they already have Whatsapp.
But it doesn't mean you must jump into acid pool, just because everyone else is doing it.
And this is why I want Spotbros or Telegram to get widely used. They are much better than Whatsapp in privacy concerns (and Telegram in Openess).
Originally Posted by Estel
I'm qualified as the freak, the paranoid. They say "wtf? Who the ****ing care about me saying stupidities in an IM" and similar... When my N900 usb port broke, I have been months talking to a bunch of friends by Google-talk, but lot of time I had to make phone calls to get informed of what are we going to do at weekend, because they just talk throught whatsapp groups and assume everybody has it. I used an old Android phone, and I didn't install official whatsapp because I don't want to send all my phonebook. I prefer to pay for phone calls or SMSs.
Personally, I respect others decision to sue whatever crap they like, but I also demand them to respect my choice of using different things. So, if they want to contact me, nothing stop them from signing up on jabber - I'll gladly help with the process.
Originally Posted by Estel
Well, so now I have near no friends and no family. They simply don't understand the value of privacy.
Someone, who would be above to sign-up in transparent and privacy-safe service to stay in touch with me - because he is too used to skype/whatsapp/whatever, and ignore fact that not everyone like giving their privacy away for free - could hardly be called a friend.
Originally Posted by Estel
You're lucky. All the people I know here around (Spain) that thinks like me are in my same situation and for us trying to convince others is like fighting with a wall.
I don't need to mention that often, after getting accustomed with FOSS tools even if just to stay in touch with me, such person gradually stops using crappy services, and starts convincing others to do it "right way"?
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2014-02-15
, 16:27
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Posts: 2,355 |
Thanked: 5,249 times |
Joined on Jan 2009
@ Barcelona
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#49
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Originally Posted by malkavian
You may not entirely grasp the concept of centralization. Even if you were able to fully replicate the workings of Telegram's IM server, you would still need to migrate all your contacts to your $REIMPLEMENTED_SERVICE! Thus, again, why would a FOSS developer want to do that and not use Jabber???
Because free software community members have friends and family that don't care about software freedom or privacy so if they want to communicate with others, they need to use widely used IM software. You are lucky if all your contacts use jabber, but it's not the case of most of us. If the best world is not possible, it's good to at least have a better one, isn't it?
That's exactly, BTW, my main problem with centralized services.
Compare the Jabber approach. If you distrust your current Jabber server, you switch to another one or even deploy your OWN one! You can still talk to all your previous contacts! Only those contacts who also distrust their current server would need to migrate
And as of today, not everyone uses Telegram (I don't know of anyone using it yet, even in Spain), so... why are you already assuming everyone uses it? This is a self-creating problem!
Originally Posted by malkavian
See above: I run my own server. Is there any other option that could give me more confidence?
why you trust the jabber server you use? Do you know personally to all people that have access to that server? Have you read the code and monitored the binary generation and use of the jabber server software you use? If you can't trust anybody and/or anything...
Originally Posted by malkavian
No, they want to capture as many users as possible in the least amount of time, like any other dot com bubble startup. Because of network effects and because people never learn, those users will have a hard time leaving their network ("but all of my friends are on Telegram instead of $TELEGRAM_SUCCESSOR!"). And once they have everyone by their balls, they'll start adding dibous "features", make an IPO, buy a private jet, etc.
Why anybody will take the care to promise privacy and openess, while most people use the less open and less privacy protector of the IM softwares (Whatsapp)? They just want to get the data of the paranoids and free software community members? Are we so important to make that evil movement to get our precious data? Maybe , just maybe, other reason could be that they are saying the truth and doing their best...
And since you are a fellow spaniard, I'm sure you remember the "MSN Messenger" era. Have you _counted_ the number of times "everyone" has moved from one IM service to the next one? What surprises me most is that on every one of those mass migrations users have _lost_ features yet they don't seem to realize.
Just to give an example, when I asked the "Why don't you use Jabber?" question in the MSN Messenger era, someone answered "because MSN allows me to play online Billiards with my contacts!".
Might be a right time to link this: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/compromise.html
Last edited by javispedro; 2014-02-15 at 16:31.
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2014-02-15
, 17:08
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Posts: 461 |
Thanked: 358 times |
Joined on May 2010
@ Bilbao (Basque Country [Spain])
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#50
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Have you ever visited official web or read anything about telegram and telegram founders ideas? Startup? Making efforts unnecessary to get users quickly?
And why would free software community fork _their_ software, when there are existing and working clients and protocols that are just better? And the existing ones even have open server implementations!