who are "them" ?
and how about hardware parts? buyed ones? goldelico will have a small role in making the neo or the neo will go foward without them?
who owns the pcb design?

"them"? Sorry you lost me on that one. The ideas?
hardware parts are basically property of donors. It doesn't matter where they stay until we need them.
GolDeliCo will have the same role in HW development as usual, at least that's what we think about that right now. Yet to get confirmed. Please stay patient. No, Neo900 most likely cannot go forward without the expertise of Nikolaus, his expertise is a key aspect in success of the project at large. And nobody planned for such thing, Neo900 is based on GTA04 experience, mind you?
PCB layout for now is owned by GDC/Nikolaus, we need to discuss this but it won't be any obstacle for the project since in the end it doesn't matter who "owns" the layout. It might become relevant when it comes to publishing the project data (eagle project files) which we may or may not do eventually, depending on what we agree upon inside the Neo900 team. The layout contains assets GDC owned and brought to the project and thus still owns them now

cheers
jOERG

I think that for those who need the clarity here this may help.

The fact is... a partnership 'tween GDC and the community is a great one...from what I/we are told ...the people involved can/do get along great.
I believe it.

It isn't that it's interpersonal.... that isn't the hurdle.

It isn't that the two parties thought it couldn't make the device.

It isn't that the two parties thought the legal hurdles were insurmountable...both parties were initially told BY ADVISORS that their partnership was doable...Later...digging deeper...the advisors returned and said that after more indepth analysis of the situation...their initial findings were incorrect. There are or will be problems with this form of collaboration.

It is legislative... it is government...it is tax departments ....it is the "systems'" machinery and how it is set up ..that don't want to make this current in-place method of collaboration work.

When any other device or thing is made....it is usually done by one entity and they make their product themselves or make whatever purchases or deals are necessary with their suppliers or minor partners....

I can only imagine the nightmare of legalese between the partnership of an org and and corp .....
and the thought just gives me the shudders ....

I can't fathom....I can't even guess at the number of migraines that the legal end of all of this has produced for those directly in it's line of fire.

If the legal/ taxation systems in place (that we have no control over) will not allow the continuation of this TYPE of working relationship...

Then in essence (very very simply put) changing the wording of that relationship on paper ....and hence having one entity alone in charge and continuing the work with GDC makes a great deal of sense...


On the topic of refunding funds...my personal take is this:
Personally to make things look right legally (I hate the fact that) we may have to have the (remaining) donated funds returned to us...send it on to Joerg...so he can then in a proper legal fashion send it right back to GDC.

Oooooh! Steams my knickers ....

who was the historical figure who said ...." ...the lawyers first..."...

This refund thing is going to irritate a few people (or most).
I will lose quite a bit due to the lowering AUS dollar Vs EUR.

Then the bank is now taking a 3% cut for international purchases.

See if you can find any way to just transfer it - Or spend it all before the refund, or a crap load of parts or pay for services so there is nothing let to refund,

BINGO! THAT'S IS THE BEST IDEA. I AM SOOO WITH YOU ON THIS!!!

GDC is still going to need the money...

Be a shame if all my deposit got spent already ()
...so there was no remainder to send back to me through money-gouging fee-grabbing tax-biting transfers ....only to send it back through the same money-gouging fee-grabbing tax-biting transfers ...

How much would there be when it finally returns to the project I wonder?

Yes ...spend mine too...don't let my donation drain away through transfers and re-transfers...that is a horrible waste.

Hmm...if it is possible to transfer the deposit of non cc paying donors to ug ...then is it possible to "juggle" a bit and spend ....sayyyyy... ALL my cc donated funds.....or "slide" the expended balance of say both mine and a non cc paying clients deposit to my balance sheet..so that ....tragically....sadly ....It wouldn't get fed on by ravenous fee-weevils only to end up back with you guys to accomplish the same purpose without the wasted time ...effort...and money?....

There has gotta be some way to tap-dance off this grease-covered ice rink!

Stay tuned! We still hope to sort it out so you don't need to worry. I got an appointment for a meeting with my tax adviser tomorrow.
In one or two days there should be a new statement regarding how to donate to Neo900 UG going public (if things don't fail again).
And maybe we manage to directly transfer all donations, on your instructions you send to GDC. You'll receive a mail eventually.

Meanwhile for those who really can't wait, the bank account data of Neo900 UG (haftungsbeschraenkt) is available for highly appreciated donations on personal inquiry via mail to contact@neo900 dot org, and on IRC
/j

Finally,
on Goldelico's side all aspects are clarified to really do the reorganisation.

We are able to forward refunds directly to Neo900 UG (if you agree and instruct us to do so). This was a big wish from the community to simplify the process and not to lose anything by currency conversion.

If you don't agree, you will get a real refund and can decide to order and pay again to Neo900 UG (I cordially invite you to do that!).

All aspects will be given in details in a personal e-mail to all those registered with an order/preorder/donation asap (i.e. within the next days).

Finally, some of you wondered why I suddenly write here on the forum but did not before. Well, I run several projects in parallel and I am active on several mailing lists. So I can neither read everything nor comment everything, unless a topic is of highest importance. Otherwise, I would not be able to do any real work and get things done: like schematics, PCB design, researching for components, writing kernel drivers, maintain the GTA04 kernel, etc. and last but not least running GDC.

-- hns

Lol :10 chars: why not a new fresh partial sticky thread or placing it in first post by any of the project managers ? It is destined to get burried and newcomers to the project wont notice it either.

Important things first: Many thanks Nikolaus for sorting this and for the fine solution you came up with.

On Neo900 UG side consultations with tax adviser (yesterday) resulted in him forwarding me to a lawyer, to develop the fineprint for donation page stating the details of how we will handle and what we will do with your donation. This probably will take several more days (need to find a lawyer willing to do this for a reasonable wages, and then actually develop a fineprint text that doesn't create similar trouble like we seen with the first one). Until this got completed, the [donate] button on Neo900.org will simply jump to a page providing not much more than the bare account details and an instruction what to put into the subject of any money order getting transferred to the UG account.
The spirit, idea and concept behind the donation remains the same, so for our donors nothing relevant will change, but we can't do it with that fineprint we had so far, that's been our big mistake we made. Again sorry for that.
Please stay tuned, I'm working on it to improve the user experience and the legal situation of the whole project.
Meanwhile I suggest and ask you all to simply agree on GDC forwarding your refund to the Neo900 UG account and to add your email-address into the subject of such transfer. Legally this turns your donation from whatever it's right now in the notion of german Tax Office into a true clean donation to Neo900 UG, something that it meant to be from beginning. By agreeing to this you also agree to GDC forwarding the data of your order (amount, date of transfer, special requests, etc) to Neo900 UG so we can handle your donation correctly. Again sorry for the noise and possible feelings of discomfort and uncertainty we created by this mistake we made, I hope we're now finally close to sorting it for good.

cheers
jOERG