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pango	2014-09-01 , 16:06
Posts: 114 \| Thanked: 37 times \| Joined on Aug 2014	#331

Originally Posted by pango

So a quarter of people see need for serious improvement and you seem to dismiss that?

If we count the people who need some improvement, it goes up to 30 vs. 29 saying Jolla needs to be more transparent.

At the moment, more people say Jolla needs to be transparent in that poll, than say they don't.

So, indeed the community has spoken.

It is now 31 to 29, 51% to 49%, saying Jolla needs to be more transparent. 25% exact saying they need to be a lot more transparent.

The community has spoken.

	Dave999	2014-09-01 , 16:19
	Posts: 7,075 \| Thanked: 9,073 times \| Joined on Oct 2009 @ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side	#332

Originally Posted by pango

It is now 31 to 29, 51% to 49%, saying Jolla needs to be more transparent. 25% exact saying they need to be a lot more transparent.

The community has spoken.

No, TMO has spoken. Jolla has make it pretty clear that jolla dont want to have anything to do with TMO officially or un officially. They just want the users money

(like most companies i may add

) Luckily some cool jolla figures(at least two) roaming the streets on TMO their free time. (Cred to you....You know who you are)

I would like see marc come here and start a countdown thread to something. That would be something. That would be unlike for real

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Last edited by Dave999; 2014-09-01 at 16:51.

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JulmaHerra	2014-09-01 , 16:47
Posts: 285 \| Thanked: 1,900 times \| Joined on Feb 2010	#333

Originally Posted by pango

I disagree, though, if that wasn't clear. I think added transparency lessens bitching.

Example you offered doesn't seem to prove it.

Hence I'm recommending it for Jolla. I see some of you guys are wildly opposed to Jolla being transparent, for whatever reason. Maybe they should take away that value poster away from the wall and replace it with "Secrecy".

I'm not opposed to Jolla being transparent. I'm opposed to bitching about it on issues that cannot be affected by community in any way, but that have potential to become destructive for Jolla. We can look at it as being realistic (me) and being overtly optimistic (you) about human behavior. I'm more into no-nonsense information that can actually be used to something creative, in a way that doesn't harm Jolla's business.

That is such a false argument, though. Who said Jolla making a few updates would have delayed the phones?

It's not a false argument. You don't seem to think beyond those "few updates" (which were given). One update spawns ten requests for more updates, then other update spawns another ten more and so on and so forth... and for what purpose? As a firewood for even more bitching, possibly tarnishing company's reputation in the eyes of those potential customers that are not "community members"? Mind you that over there there are plenty of people who just love that kind of information for mud slinging (yes, they exist even outside the community).

Vewry likely the people handling the deliveries were completely separate from those who would have and could have made updates on the status.

As far as I remember, they were all handling those deliveries. Even CEO. And again, no amount of status updates would have sufficed, but being stained of people handling the deliveries it would have caused delays.

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pango	2014-09-01 , 16:52
Posts: 114 \| Thanked: 37 times \| Joined on Aug 2014	#334

Originally Posted by Dave999

No, TMO has spoken. Jolla has make it pretty clear that jolla dont want to have anything to do with TMO officially or un officially. They just want the users money (like most companies i may add ) Luckily some cool jolla figures(at least two) roaming the streets on TMO their free time. (Cred to you....You know who you are)

I would like see marc come here and start a countdown thread to something. That would be something. That would be unlike for real

Of course TMO has spoken only, and even then just the limited group of people who took part. I was joking, I didn't use the poll to push down the other side, merely responded.

I would like to see Marc come down here and talk Jolla stuff with brutal honesty and transparency. Now THAT would be... Fairphone-like.

PR stunts with pretty pictures? Not unlike. But very Jolla-like.

Last edited by pango; 2014-09-01 at 16:54.

pango	2014-09-01 , 17:02
Posts: 114 \| Thanked: 37 times \| Joined on Aug 2014	#335

Originally Posted by JulmaHerra

Example you offered doesn't seem to prove it.

I disagree. I see people getting info and calming down. But most importantly it is an example of one organization doing what many here thought impossible.

Originally Posted by JulmaHerra

I'm not opposed to Jolla being transparent. I'm opposed to bitching about it on issues that cannot be affected by community in any way, but that have potential to become destructive for Jolla. We can look at it as being realistic (me) and being overtly optimistic (you) about human behavior. I'm more into no-nonsense information that can actually be used to something creative, in a way that doesn't harm Jolla's business.

No-nonsens info sounds good. My problem is that we mostly get fluff nonsense platitudes from Jolla. And I don't think I'm bitching about it either. I am offering feedback, again I was sucked in to this thread when people objected to me liking jalyst's post on page 3. It is a good post, yet people ignore his point.

Originally Posted by JulmaHerra

It's not a false argument. You don't seem to think beyond those "few updates" (which were given). One update spawns ten requests for more updates, then other update spawns another ten more and so on and so forth... and for what purpose? As a firewood for even more bitching, possibly tarnishing company's reputation in the eyes of those potential customers that are not "community members"? Mind you that over there there are plenty of people who just love that kind of information for mud slinging (yes, they exist even outside the community).

Again, there is a balance to be struck. Now we had no info and it was clearly by choice, not so much trying and failing. I would recommend a middle-road for Jolla. Again, Fairphone seems to manage.

Originally Posted by JulmaHerra

As far as I remember, they were all handling those deliveries. Even CEO. And again, no amount of status updates would have sufficed, but being stained of people handling the deliveries it would have caused delays.

I sincerely doubt that e.g. Marc was doing the deliveries full time. Most likely much of the work was outsourced. cybette anyway had time to post chitchat here throughout the process. What if she had posted info instead?

	Dave999	2014-09-01 , 17:21
	Posts: 7,075 \| Thanked: 9,073 times \| Joined on Oct 2009 @ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side	#336

Originally Posted by pango

Of course TMO has spoken only, and even then just the limited group of people who took part. I was joking, I didn't use the poll to push down the other side, merely responded.

I would like to see Marc come down here and talk Jolla stuff with brutal honesty and transparency. Now THAT would be... Fairphone-like.

PR stunts with pretty pictures? Not unlike. But very Jolla-like.

Would be Epic if you could get Elop, Dillon, Lynch and Shuttleworth to join TMO. Think it will happen any day now.

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NokiaFanatic	2014-09-01 , 17:31
Posts: 337 \| Thanked: 891 times \| Joined on Jul 2012 @ Royaume Uni.	#337

If you're going to get Dillon and Shuttleworth to sign up here, then I think it's only fair that Larry Page, Sergei Brin and Tim Cook should also register here and make their opinions know on Google and Apple's strategy. Maybe we could even dig Steve Jobs up out of his grave so we could his thoughts as well.

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pango	2014-09-01 , 17:38
Posts: 114 \| Thanked: 37 times \| Joined on Aug 2014	#338

Originally Posted by NokiaFanatic

If you're going to get Dillon and Shuttleworth to sign up here, then I think it's only fair that Larry Page, Sergei Brin and Tim Cook should also register here and make their opinions know on Google and Apple's strategy. Maybe we could even dig Steve Jobs up out of his grave so we could his thoughts as well.

How big do you think Jolla is?

	Dave999	2014-09-01 , 17:41
	Posts: 7,075 \| Thanked: 9,073 times \| Joined on Oct 2009 @ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side	#339

Originally Posted by NokiaFanatic

If you're going to get Dillon and Shuttleworth to sign up here, then I think it's only fair that Larry Page, Sergei Brin and Tim Cook should also register here and make their opinions know on Google and Apple's strategy. Maybe we could even dig Steve Jobs up out of his grave so we could his thoughts as well.

Yeah, Bring everyone! Mark SpaceShuttle is the only one I have been able to chat with...I send out a challenge to the rest to do the same

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MemphisX	2014-09-01 , 17:52
Posts: 8 \| Thanked: 18 times \| Joined on Aug 2014	#340

I can't believe this thread is still alive... and it is still soooo boring... a monologue by pango. Seriously man don't you have a full time job? Why on earth spend so much time on forums posting the same things again and again?

This is your opinion, ok accepted, Jolla is not enough transparent for you. Now that you don't like it MOVE ON. Find a more transparent company that suits your needs.

You seem to be a "sofa CEO" as we used to call them on myphone.gr but you just reached another level. You seem to know everything about how is the right way of managing a company and you keep insisting on all the wrong things done and why they should be fixed the way you want them to be fixed, and how doomed jolla is by not following your advices. Are you a consultant? Do you have a rich background in management or something similar? I don't think so because if you had you wouldn't be posting non-stop here about those things.

Almost half of the posts in this thread are yours... saying the same things again and again. WHY ON EARTH ARE YOU POLLUTING THIS FORUM. Is it because you believe we are stupid and we don't understand you, and by repeating yourself will change that? Your opinion can't be more clear. Why waste your time repeating yourself? What are you personally going to achieve by that? Just answer that simple question.