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2014-12-01
, 04:54
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Posts: 1,298 |
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Joined on May 2011
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#722
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Originally Posted by Tigerroast
I suspect @aegis meant for any flash memory, not necessarily for soild state drives (which also use flash like SD cards). Since flash is ruined faster by excessive writes, it makes sense for filesystem targeted for flash storage to optimize writes accordingly. Most of the filesystems out there don't care about this issue (that's what F2FS is trying to improve actually).
The underlined bit, that's a very strong claim to make. You're gonna need to expound upon that. I see nothing that would make filesystems like NTFS, ext4, or Btrfs "unsuitable" for solid-state devices.
SSD are actually used in modern cameras which support storing raw video.
Last edited by shmerl; 2014-12-01 at 05:02.
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2014-12-01
, 05:05
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Posts: 102 |
Thanked: 171 times |
Joined on Nov 2014
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#723
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Originally Posted by shmerl
Definitely a far more helpful response than talking down my "dogmatic nonsense." Thank you.
I supsect @aegis meant for flash memory, not for soild state drives. Since flash is ruined faster by excessive writes, it makes sense for filesystem targeted for flash storage to optimize writes accordingly. Most of the filesystems out there don't care about this issue (that's what F2FS is trying to improve actually).
Btrfs has optimizations for reducing unnecessary read+writes (among others) already. The problem's lack of interoperability with Windows or Mac. Does F2FS share this same problem?
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2014-12-01
, 05:09
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Posts: 1,298 |
Thanked: 2,277 times |
Joined on May 2011
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#724
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Apparently BTRFS has some optimizations for SSD at least according to this:
https://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index....zed_for_SSD.3F
F2FS only announced that driver for Windows will be released, but I didn't hear anything about it so far. And another problem is how soon will camera manufacturers update their firmware to support F2FS. It still looks like a while since filesystem wasn't even declared stable yet (BTRFS wasn't either for that matter).
So happy future with everyone having F2FS out of the box is really not here yet. But it doesn't mean individuals can't use it already.
https://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index....zed_for_SSD.3F
F2FS only announced that driver for Windows will be released, but I didn't hear anything about it so far. And another problem is how soon will camera manufacturers update their firmware to support F2FS. It still looks like a while since filesystem wasn't even declared stable yet (BTRFS wasn't either for that matter).
So happy future with everyone having F2FS out of the box is really not here yet. But it doesn't mean individuals can't use it already.
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2014-12-01
, 12:27
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Posts: 3,790 |
Thanked: 5,718 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
@ Vienna, Austria
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#725
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Originally Posted by Tigerroast
Of course you don't have to. But if you don't, there's a fair chance your card will be slower than it could be and will wear out faster than it's supposed to. There's always The Right Thing™ to do... and things that may work so-so.
Really? That might have been the common method to formatting an SD card back in...2008? Excuse the hyperbole, but you don't even have to do all that.
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2014-12-01
, 12:34
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Posts: 3,790 |
Thanked: 5,718 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
@ Vienna, Austria
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#726
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Originally Posted by shmerl
It was my understanding that it's practically impossible to build a phone or a tablet without buying licenses for closed, patented technology. It's not that exFAT would be the first or the only one. What I don't understand is why it gets this attention... If this were a serious issue, we'd have to ask Jolla which patents are used in the basic version of the tablet (without stretch goals) ans remove all of them (because they're payed with crowdfunded money.)
This discussion is about changing the stretch goal from one which involves paying for exFAT to something else.
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2014-12-01
, 14:15
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Posts: 1,986 |
Thanked: 7,698 times |
Joined on Dec 2010
@ Dayton, Ohio
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#727
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Originally Posted by benny1967
Well, it is a stretch goal in a crowdfunding campaign. "Come on, folks! Spend your money on this risky startup effort! If you buy now, we'll give your money to Microsoft to purchase a license! Isn't that worth the risk?"
What I don't understand is why it gets this attention...
Doesn't make me feel very enthusiastic to open my wallet.
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2014-12-01
, 14:29
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Posts: 1,269 |
Thanked: 3,961 times |
Joined on May 2011
@ Brazil
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#728
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So Bluetooth should also be banned from Jolla Tablet ? Like some asian tablets to avoid paying Bluetooth licenses, Bluetooth Compliance and Certification, etc ?
As an Sailfish user and developer, I want the Jolla Tablet as much popular as possible. Including the maximum compatibility with microSD sizes and formats.
Or else the first review of the Jolla Tablet will negative. Do we want it ?
As an Sailfish user and developer, I want the Jolla Tablet as much popular as possible. Including the maximum compatibility with microSD sizes and formats.
Or else the first review of the Jolla Tablet will negative. Do we want it ?
__________________
Python, C/C++, Qt and CAS developer. For Maemo/MeeGo/Sailfish :
Integral, Derivative, Limit - calculating mathematical integrals, derivatives and limits. SymPy - Computer Algebra System.
MatPlotLib - 2D & 3D plots in Python. IPython - Python interactive shell.
-- My blog about mobile & scientific computing ---
Sailfish : Sony Xperia X, Gemini, Jolla, Jolla C, Jolla Tablet, Nexus 4. Nokia N9, N900, N810.
Python, C/C++, Qt and CAS developer. For Maemo/MeeGo/Sailfish :
Integral, Derivative, Limit - calculating mathematical integrals, derivatives and limits. SymPy - Computer Algebra System.
MatPlotLib - 2D & 3D plots in Python. IPython - Python interactive shell.
-- My blog about mobile & scientific computing ---
Sailfish : Sony Xperia X, Gemini, Jolla, Jolla C, Jolla Tablet, Nexus 4. Nokia N9, N900, N810.
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2014-12-01
, 14:41
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Posts: 956 |
Thanked: 2,628 times |
Joined on Nov 2011
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#729
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I don't get why open source fans always need to be that extremely fundamentalism......
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2014-12-01
, 15:07
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Posts: 702 |
Thanked: 2,059 times |
Joined on Feb 2011
@ UK
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#730
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Originally Posted by Tigerroast
Why do I need to expound on it?
The underlined bit, that's a very strong claim to make. You're gonna need to expound upon that. I see nothing that would make filesystems like NTFS, ext4, or Btrfs "unsuitable" for solid-state devices.
The simple answer is that the SDxc standard mandates ExFAT and that's what Jolla need to support. That above all else makes them unsuitable.
I'm sure there are some fantastic, technical marvels that are much better than ExFAT, technically, but we have to always go back to 'the standard' and what 99.9% of people expect of a card with 'SDxc' written on it and what Jolla are allowed to claim.
Also, the irony of suggesting Microsoft's NTFS as an alternative to Microsoft's ExFAT is hilarious.
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The underlined bit, that's a very strong claim to make. You're gonna need to expound upon that. I see nothing that would make filesystems like NTFS, ext4, or Btrfs "unsuitable" for solid-state devices.
"Unofficial" support would mean that the hardware still works, but with a different kind of format, such as the 64GB uSD cards people got to work on their handsets. Of course, Jolla wouldn't advertize it as such, but that's what makes it "unofficially" supported. It only works with unofficial formats.