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Wikiwide	2014-12-06 , 00:04
Posts: 2,006 \| Thanked: 3,351 times \| Joined on Jun 2010 @ N900: Battery low. N950: torx 4 re-used once and fine; SIM port torn apart	#31

Quick reply...

You seem to forget one very important difference between Pyra and Neo900. Sure, Pyra is a good micro-notebook in a bag, to be used in a bus or on airplane. But it is too large and *heavy* to be carried in hands for a prolonged amount of time, or I would think so.

Pyra is sensor-less. Sure, it got microphone and GPS, but it does not seem to have even an accelerometer (what for? you ask; for detection of free-fall, for one, and loud warning: I am falling from Eiffel Tower, help me! Sure, GPS might be able to detect a free-fall, but slower, and not as accurately), gyroscope, barometer, thermometer, and such.

Pyra does not even have a camera, right? So yes, for typing a book, or something else requiring a large screen and large keyboard, full attention of user, Pyra may be better. But for doing something on the go... Or for doing something in the evening before falling asleep... N(eo)9x0 is better. If my hands tire from holding N900 up, then holding Pyra up in the air would be nearly impossible.

I am not sure that Neo900 will be usable as mobile weather station-forecaster ;-) But the sensors are still something highly useful to have.

And I am not going to fight over transparency, talkativity and friendliness of developer teams. After all, there are people working with both devices at the same time, and the teams do not seem to be fighting against each other.

These devices are not competitors. They are completely different. Pandora-Pyra user would likely tell you that hardware keyboard of N(eo)900 lacks gaming controls, for example ;-)

And yes, I might get FreEmantle working on Pyra, some day :-) What will you say, then?

Best wishes :-)

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Tigerroast	2014-12-06 , 00:18
Posts: 102 \| Thanked: 171 times \| Joined on Nov 2014	#32

Originally Posted by Estel

Of course, everyone's expectation differ - but when discussing device's feasibility, we can skip that, or any point would be moot one (after all, everything may be suitable for someone). When I wrote "more important", I thought about it as "more important for device's success", thats why no "for me bit".

Alright, I understand where you're coming from much better now. However, you're conflating the two devices with this "battle for pocket-PC superiority." Only one of these devices is explicitly and unashamedly just that- the Pyra. As such, it's aiming for a very specific audience.

Meanwhile, the Neo900's still a phone for a specific audience. Its feasibility as a pocket-PC henceforth wouldn't translate directly to its success. Both devices have their niche.

Why? Because phone functionality can be found on gazillion of devices, while (real) desktop-PC-in-pocket is close to non-existent category.

I understand that, but the latter's not the Neo900's first call of duty. It's not a pocket-PC; it's a smartphone. Smartphones aren't meant to be stand-ins for a netbook. Rather, their primary purposes are use for connectivity with peers+business and as a daily helper on-the-move. There's certainly infinite ways to fulfill those purposes, which are definitely not limited to phones.

However, if the smartphone market has proven one thing, it's that people find smartphones to be the most widely-accepted way of fulfilling those purposes. Not true for everyone, but the overwhelming supermajority, without question.

Here is a niche for Pyra. IMO - even outside of my personal sentiments - in direct comparison with Pyra, device like Neo900 (if lacking major parts of "desktop pc in pocket") may, at the end of a day, interest people fanatically attached to Hildon-like experience for mobile computing (aka small percent of Maemo users), and thats about it.

That underlined bit. You can't have an opinion that's outside of your personal sentiments. Your opinion is a reflection of your personal sentiments, as indicated by, quite literally, everything else following that statement.

Pyra gets everything else, which is, like, 99,99% of "geeky" audience?

That's a VERY bold claim. Even with the loose context attached to the "'geeky' audience" you're alluding to, that's still a broad audience.

...but the more I learn about customizing window managers and lightweight desktop environments (like LXDE) to my liking/special needs, the less and less need for Hildon I see.

It seems like anytime I'm in a discussion about tech, the monster of "personal integration" keeps rearing its head. Let's address this.

What you just said is also true for..well...literally every other product with preconfigured defaults. People love the ol' GNOME2 interface to pieces. People also love Unity. There's Windows 7 die-hards, as well as Windows 8 fanatics.

Hell, there's people that hate systemd so much, they're willing to fork+fragment Debian to avoid having it as a default. The biggest OSS project in the planet, and people are willing to fragment it just to suit their needs (or wants, in this case).

Hildon's fallen from grace for your needs? Cool. On the same token, there's someone for whom Hildon strikes every single right chord.

Even I can relate to this. I used to really like Ubuntu. A couple months of distro-hopping later, I wrote my ticket to Arch-land.

Certainly, not enough to justify hooping through so many fire loops, like porting Fremantle to anything non-Nokia require, objectively.

Ouch. Do you eat ketchup with your salt?

I'm aware that all possible the N900-like hardware projects should also allow other OS'es than Fremantle, but I can't imagine anyone buying it over Pyra for running something OTHER than FreEmantle on it. Unless one is buying both devices "for the love of projects", but it hardly counts as sustainable customers base, IMO.

All up to whoever's interested. I can't imagine anyone using Linux to stick with Ubuntu at this point, yet it's still at least in the Top 3 of most popular distributions. So much for imagination.

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	nokiabot	2014-12-06 , 04:49
	Posts: 1,974 \| Thanked: 1,834 times \| Joined on Mar 2013 @ india	#33

As for mobile kde plasma does a nice job as does enlightment tablet mode does but they are heavy and not that great

linux mint is rather better i say and with all the crazy things going in linux lately distros have gone unstable and unpreditable.

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Tigerroast	2014-12-06 , 07:44
Posts: 102 \| Thanked: 171 times \| Joined on Nov 2014	#34

Originally Posted by nokiabot

As for mobile kde plasma does a nice job as does enlightment tablet mode does but they are heavy and not that great

Wait...Enlightenment is heavy? Huh? That's news to me, considering it's literally the lightest window manager I have on my computer. With compositing off, I'm getting ~110MB taken by it. The Bohdi folks work magic with it though, and get by with even less.

linux mint is rather better i say and with all the crazy things going in linux lately distros have gone unstable and unpreditable.

Eh...I disagree. The only huge deal thus far was the plumbing being changed to systemd. Some handled it better than others. For example, Arch s_at the bed when it switched (handled like a beast after, though). OpenSUSE, on the other hand, has probably had the most buttery-smooth transition I've ever seen (apart from Tumbleweed/Factory, but those require manual intervention anyway).

I do admit though. Mint's a champ. Rock-solid, hard-bodied. Especially Mint Debian. It's about as neutral as a semi-rolling distro gets.

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	nokiabot	2014-12-06 , 16:26
	Posts: 1,974 \| Thanked: 1,834 times \| Joined on Mar 2013 @ india	#35

Looks like m wrong i though enlightment out of bodhi would be bloated i.e bodhi is tailored for enlightment

Btw m not taking systemd m taking about stability and to me that means smooth operation without hiccups and i faced a lot of problems with ubuntu 14.04 point update as using ubuntu since 12.04

mint is real nice but transition takes its time and has it quirks

i am just distrohopping now and man linux is huge too much choice ;(
opensuse and mint are in hitlist though for now ;

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	endsormeans	2014-12-06 , 16:35
	Posts: 3,141 \| Thanked: 8,164 times \| Joined on Feb 2013 @ From my Gabriola Island hermitage, near the Edge of the World	#36

Yea ...bodhi is grand...love linpus too....nicey nice-nice two of my all time fav's...k'buntu is all right....like plasma 5(but it's a bit hicuppy at times for me...) ..got a wee bit of a thing for semplice, epidemic, lmde, and Kaos ...love rr's ...in the end though ...bodhi and linpus are pretty frickin' good on a convertible tablet laptop. ...

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Tigerroast	2014-12-06 , 19:01
Posts: 102 \| Thanked: 171 times \| Joined on Nov 2014	#37

Originally Posted by nokiabot

Looks like m wrong i though enlightment out of bodhi would be bloated i.e bodhi is tailored for enlightment

Hmm...this is somewhat true, though it depends on what you refer to as bloat.

Still, Bohdi is magic.

Btw m not taking systemd m taking about stability and to me that means smooth operation without hiccups and i faced a lot of problems with ubuntu 14.04 point update as using ubuntu since 12.04

Ah, noted. My bad, then.

May be a tad anedotal, but Ubuntu Tahr (and Unicorn) was buttery-smooth for me. The only things that happened for me with Tahr was flickering when booting up (nothing after though) and YouTube videos playing the sound, but not the video (which turned out to be that I didn't use the HTML5 player).

Unicorn, on the other hand, gave me 0 problems.

On a not-so-anecdotal topic, Arch, for a bleeding-edge distro, has yet to give me problems. I keep fishing for 'em, but they ain't bitin'.

mint is real nice but transition takes its time and has it quirks

I feel you. I mean, at the end of the day, the innards are still Ubuntu, but the Mint folks like to work their own sorcery with it.

i am just distrohopping now and man linux is huge too much choice ;(
opensuse and mint are in hitlist though for now

I guess Arch is out of the question

OpenSUSE vs. Mint is definitely an interesting choice. It's your decision at the end of the day, but here's why I'd go with OpenSUSE:

-if you don't like using the terminal, Mint has no equivalent to YaST for administrative tasks
-OpenSUSE has Fedora-level support; Mint does not
-since OpenSUSE isn't a fork, its documentation is rather straightforward and more uniform
-YaST2 is much faster than Mint's package manager

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anthonie	2014-12-06 , 21:52
Posts: 1,048 \| Thanked: 1,127 times \| Joined on Jan 2010 @ Amsterdam	#38

Originally Posted by nokiabot

Looks like m wrong i though enlightment out of bodhi would be bloated i.e bodhi is tailored for enlightment

I used to run E17 on EasyDebian on the N900. Made me wish we had Enlightenment instead Hildon-desktop for Maemo. It would've been smoother than anything else.

__________________
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	bingomion	2014-12-06 , 23:28
	Posts: 528 \| Thanked: 345 times \| Joined on Aug 2010 @ MLB.AU	#39

Originally Posted by Tigerroast

I understand that, but the latter's not the Neo900's first call of duty. It's not a pocket-PC; it's a smartphone. Smartphones aren't meant to be stand-ins for a netbook. Rather, their primary purposes are use for connectivity with peers+business and as a daily helper on-the-move. There's certainly infinite ways to fulfill those purposes, which are definitely not limited to phones.

However, if the smartphone market has proven one thing, it's that people find smartphones to be the most widely-accepted way of fulfilling those purposes. Not true for everyone, but the overwhelming supermajority, without question.

N900 was/is never a smartphone(dumb users).
N900 was/is a MID (mobile Internet device) which is closer to a portable PC then a mobile phone and it's hardware (keyboard/stylus) is proof of this.

blah.. words...

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Tigerroast	2014-12-07 , 09:01
Posts: 102 \| Thanked: 171 times \| Joined on Nov 2014	#40

Originally Posted by bingomion

N900 was/is never a smartphone(dumb users).
N900 was/is a MID (mobile Internet device) which is closer to a portable PC then a mobile phone and it's hardware (keyboard/stylus) is proof of this.

blah.. words...

Wow.

I honestly couldn't give anything that reminds of cares about semantics. "Mobile Internet device" and "Internet Tablet" (even though we can CLEARLY see that it isn't a bloody tablet by any standard) sound like marketing jargon to me.

I don't care what it's called. It's a phone. Has nearly the same dimensions of that Droid phone with a keyboard (name escapes me, it was released around the same time as the N900).

There's plenty of idiots running around with iPhones. That doesn't make the iPhone less of a smartphone, so I don't know what you're on about.

And how is having a keyboard making it any more like a PC? That's a real headscratcher. "Oh, it has a keyboard, and my PC has a keyboard. Therefore, it's more like my PC than other phones!" My phone having its own half-baked office suite doesn't make it more like my PC via lowest common denominator. That's stretching pretty far, Mr. Fantastic.

And the stylus bit...no. Anyone with common sense would at least strongly consider using a stylus with a resistive touch screen, on the grounds that the screen might be rather precise and the UI might just reflect that. That doesn't make it more like a PC.