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2015-01-26
, 10:09
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Posts: 764 |
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Joined on Jun 2014
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#32
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Resistive touch screens are all good and well, but how are you going to zoom in on your photos in the Gallery, or on a webpage in the browser, or really do anything that requires using more than one finger at a time? You could put buttons in there to zoom in/out, but then why are you using Sailfish? Are there any (readily available) resistive touch screens that can handle multitouch input well, or at all?
I can find this (admittedly I've only quickly scanned the first pages of results), but that seems to be about it. It's also six years old.
I can find this (admittedly I've only quickly scanned the first pages of results), but that seems to be about it. It's also six years old.
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2015-01-26
, 10:42
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Posts: 2,355 |
Thanked: 5,249 times |
Joined on Jan 2009
@ Barcelona
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#33
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Originally Posted by Dave999
That stylus already works on any screen. The program on that video (finesketch) only does pressure sensitivity and eraser/stylus detection, which are the two features that need program support either way. I made a patched build of "Paint" from the Jolla Store too so it's somewhat easy to "plug" those feature in any application.
yes, but it should work on any app/screen.
Its precision leaves a lot to be desired, meaning it's most probably useless for drawing. On the other side it is (almost) good enough for simple note taking.
I think something could be done to improve the precision. For example the Adonit stylus currently has one accelerometer only. If it had two (or a gyro) you could measure the stylus tilt, which would be a good way to improve the precision.
In general the quality of those stylus depends a lot on the touchscreen you use them with. For example the Adonit Jot Script works OK on iPad/iTouch/NokiaN9, somewhat decent on the Jolla, but absolutely horrible on the HP Touchpad, where it fails to detect most taps and drawing a straight line is almost impossible.
Last edited by javispedro; 2015-01-26 at 10:48.
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2015-01-26
, 11:20
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Posts: 70 |
Thanked: 68 times |
Joined on Jan 2013
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#34
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Originally Posted by javispedro
@ javispedro : I was trying to reach you on twitter lately. I don't know how much time you get for finesketch and gato, but I'm willing to help you if you need. As my first post pointed out, I'd like to allow your system to be used as tablet to draw on a computer screen. Obviously I don't own a Jolla Tablet for now, but anyway we can still discuss things to be done etc…
That stylus already works on any screen. The program on that video (finesketch) only does pressure sensitivity and eraser/stylus detection, which are the two features that need program support either way. I made a patched build of "Paint" from the Jolla Store too so it's somewhat easy to "plug" those feature in any application.
Its precision leaves a lot to be desired, meaning it's most probably useless for drawing. On the other side it is (almost) good enough for simple note taking.
I think something could be done to improve the precision. For example the Adonit stylus currently has one accelerometer only. If it had two (or a gyro) you could measure the stylus tilt, which would be a good way to improve the precision.
In general the quality of those stylus depends a lot on the touchscreen you use them with. For example the Adonit Jot Script works OK on iPad/iTouch/NokiaN9, somewhat decent on the Jolla, but absolutely horrible on the HP Touchpad, where it fails to detect most taps and drawing a straight line is almost impossible.
I can send you my email in a PM if you want ...
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2015-01-26
, 13:27
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Posts: 1,986 |
Thanked: 7,698 times |
Joined on Dec 2010
@ Dayton, Ohio
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#35
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Originally Posted by nthn
AAARRRGGHHH!!!
Resistive touch screens are all good and well, but how are you going to zoom in on your photos in the Gallery, or on a webpage in the browser, or really do anything that requires using more than one finger at a time?
<Rant Mode> It's true, zooming photos or web-pages requires more than one finger! Why? Because Steve Jobs said that it does. Therefore, it is a natural law, followed by all of humanity without question.
Wow, it was such a burden back in the days before capacitive screens, when all us poor computer users had to break out our magnifying glasses in order to view small pictures or read tiny text. I mean, we had all sorts of ways of interacting with our computers, such as clicking buttons, moving pointers, pressing keys, and touching screens, but _none_ of these were of any use at all! No, we had to use TWO FINGERS in order to zoom, and since we weren't using any input devices that recognized TWO FINGERS, nobody ever zoomed anything. Ever. </Rant Mode>
Sorry, this just really makes me tear my hair out every time I hear it...
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2015-01-26
, 14:01
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Posts: 2,355 |
Thanked: 5,249 times |
Joined on Jan 2009
@ Barcelona
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#36
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Originally Posted by sandy_locke
Finesketch is just a quick demo of what can be done using Gato; I do not plan to develop it further at the moment. Making a full fledged note taking program is way too much UI work for my liking...
@ javispedro : I was trying to reach you on twitter lately. I don't know how much time you get for finesketch and gato, but I'm willing to help you if you need.
I'm a stylus fan though so I would be interested in such a program if someone does it.
Originally Posted by sandy_locke
The part where you translate the touchscreen inputs in the Jolla to a computer screen is not trivial, but it is straightforward.
I'd like to allow your system to be used as tablet to draw on a computer screen. Obviously I don't own a Jolla Tablet for now, but anyway we can still discuss things to be done etc…
The problem is the stylus. Specially if you want a "fine tip" stylus like the one on my video.
First and foremost -- a "fine tip" capacitive stylus's never going to be as precise as a true drawing tablet. Estel is right, the technology so far cannot compete with a good resistive or active/magnetic screen. You will see curves being "straightened", missing segments, and other glitches, specially when starting/ending strokes.
If you're looking for a "cheap wacom/cintiq" then my suggestion is to look elsewhere since you will be _severely_ disappointed with capacitive screens (e.g. jPad, iPad, even the Tegra Note; only NTrig seems to have been able to workaround issues with capacitive, and it seems that's because they use some kind of optical sensing technobabble).
I see that you've used an iPad as "drawing tablet". Which stylus did you use? Where those OK for you?
Second -- how good a capacitive stylus works on the "jPad" depends on how sensitive the touchscreen it uses is. Example.
And the only way I know to check that is to... try it.
Maybe some sailor with a jPad proto can check that for us (or, I can take my Adonit Jot Script to FOSDEM...).
Cause if the sensitivity is not enough, then there's not much one can do. You will have to do with the usual "fat tip" stylus...
On some touchscreens you can actually adjust the sensitivity. But even if it's possible, I don't know how
Assuming the capacitive stylus part works, then you only need Bluetooth for e.g. pressure sensitivity, and to distinguish between finger presses and stylus touches (but this is entirely optional).
In the Adonit, Bluetooth is also used to fix an offset that appears when you tilt the stylus.
Last edited by javispedro; 2015-01-26 at 14:18.
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2015-01-26
, 14:16
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Posts: 702 |
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Joined on Feb 2011
@ UK
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#37
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Originally Posted by Copernicus
I think it's because anybody who has tried it finds it natural and easy. Sure you could trace a spiral in/out like on the N900 or hit +/- buttons with a pen but it's by far one of the most natural and obvious gestures.
AAARRRGGHHH!!!
<Rant Mode> It's true, zooming photos or web-pages requires more than one finger! Why? Because Steve Jobs said that it does. Therefore, it is a natural law, followed by all of humanity without question.
Also, haven't we solved the capacitive v resistive thing already. Capacitive won. No more having to hit weeny buttons with your fingernail because you've lost your pen.
For those of you who want to use pens but still have decent multitouch gestures, there's hybrid screens that layer a Wacom panel under the capacitive layer like the Galaxy Note. These are infinitely better than resistive in day to day use.
I don't see why the N900 screen gets glowing reviews either. Of the two I had, they regularly went out of calibration, scratched easily and had awful viewing angles. Even my SE P910i had a better screen.
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2015-01-26
, 14:29
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Posts: 6,447 |
Thanked: 20,981 times |
Joined on Sep 2012
@ UK
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#38
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Originally Posted by Copernicus
I could not have said it better!
AAARRRGGHHH!!!
<snip>
Besides, as the Neo900 project has found, dual touch is possible on resistive screens with the right controller.
Also, there is nothing in Salifish except pinch to zoom that requires multitouch. All the swipe gestures are just as easily achievable with single-touch resistive screens. Admittedly the Jolla screen supports a 5-finger touch but the only case when one may need more than two fingers is for applications like a piano. As far as I know, no such application exists (yet).
Originally Posted by aegis
It is only "natural" once you know about it. When I was first handed an iPhone with a map on it, I scratched my head and asked, "how do I zoom in?" Without having been shown, it would never have occurred to me to try two fingers. Maybe it's just me.
I think it's because anybody who has tried it finds it natural and easy. Sure you could trace a spiral in/out like on the N900 or hit +/- buttons with a pen but it's by far one of the most natural and obvious gestures.
Originally Posted by aegis
VHS also won against Beta and Video 2000. Does that make it better?
Also, haven't we solved the capacitive v resistive thing already. Capacitive won.
Originally Posted by aegis
That's strange. Out of the four N900s in my posession, none has ever required screen calibration.
I don't see why the N900 screen gets glowing reviews either. Of the two I had, they regularly went out of calibration, scratched easily and had awful viewing angles. Even my SE P910i had a better screen.
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Русский военный корабль, иди нахуй!
Русский военный корабль, иди нахуй!
Last edited by pichlo; 2015-01-26 at 14:35.
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2015-01-26
, 14:39
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Posts: 764 |
Thanked: 2,888 times |
Joined on Jun 2014
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#39
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Originally Posted by Copernicus
Did you even read literally the next sentence I wrote?
AAARRRGGHHH!!!
<Rant Mode> It's true, zooming photos or web-pages requires more than one finger! Why? Because Steve Jobs said that it does. Therefore, it is a natural law, followed by all of humanity without question.
Wow, it was such a burden back in the days before capacitive screens, when all us poor computer users had to break out our magnifying glasses in order to view small pictures or read tiny text. I mean, we had all sorts of ways of interacting with our computers, such as clicking buttons, moving pointers, pressing keys, and touching screens, but _none_ of these were of any use at all! No, we had to use TWO FINGERS in order to zoom, and since we weren't using any input devices that recognized TWO FINGERS, nobody ever zoomed anything. Ever. </Rant Mode>
Sorry, this just really makes me tear my hair out every time I hear it...
"You could put buttons in there to zoom in/out, but then why are you using Sailfish?"
Besides, as I said, there are other things than that pinch-to-zoom stuff that you would use multitouch for. Holding the Shift key on the keyboard, for example.
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2015-01-26
, 14:42
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Posts: 764 |
Thanked: 2,888 times |
Joined on Jun 2014
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#40
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Originally Posted by aegis
I wouldn't call it an obvious gesture, but it's definitely a lot nicer to use, and more precise than pressing some tiny +/- buttons that can only jump in preset increments.
I think it's because anybody who has tried it finds it natural and easy. Sure you could trace a spiral in/out like on the N900 or hit +/- buttons with a pen but it's by far one of the most natural and obvious gestures.
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I had a few touchscreen devices before and since, of course. All my Palm devices had excellent touchscreens. The only bad resistive touchscreen I had was on a Samsung phone. That screen in combination with the Bada OS made me get rid of it in just a week. Before that, it would never even have occurred to me that a touchscreen could even be bad. The things one takes for granted...
Русский военный корабль, иди нахуй!