So... when is the Neo900 going to be released...

After the apocalypse?....

dear endo pls make your posts consise also your english is a bit diffrently styled that makes it hard for some to follow up

ah...sorry there nokiabot...
yea those 2 posts were thick...
some of my thorough explanation unfortunately get a little thick...
and that last one was posting whilst watching that snowden interview.....clean the "vague" edges there.
What nokiabot don't like the writing method?
It's perfect for mobile devices...
I call it endsoku...
my version of haiku .

What may be most confusing are the Shakespearean-esque "asides"...I usually put in brackets


good interview...yea...an audience that doesn't get the pitch....
but when a common understanding...a common fear..
which for the american people happens to be the gov't collecting "dik pix" well...then they are completely understanding and attentive...
all about the angle of approach and pitch.

I would really be happy to be more "active" than "reactive", as endsormeans tries to encourage us, but my skills in kernel developpment and electronics are insufficient to actively help and speed up things in these fields.
So, the only things I can bring are, like many of us, analysis and ideas.
- To bring accurate analysis, we need more informations. The cost didn't doubled from one day to the next, and being informed just now it's a fact doesn't allow to be proactive on anything. I think that's what sulu called "lack of transparency" : people have to actively search informations and constantly watch the project to have an idea on how it evolves.
- To bring ideas, I'm ok, but one idea I submited (monthes ago) is still unanswered. It let me figure that Neo900UG doesn't have enough time to evaluate these kind of ideas, so I shouldn't waste energy to propose them. Sad, because this one could have involved some skilled actors and new donators interrested by such a project.

So, the best way to help I've considered until now is to put money aside, make a donation and pry something affordable will come out of this project.
If I'm wrong, just tell here how we could help, and I'm sure there will be volunteers.

Sorry for the disillusioned tone.

@endsormeans, tucked away neatly in your carving workshop, you do not have much experience with governments and corporations, do you?

I can just see it: government or large corp officials banging on the door of a small team of 2.5, developing a niche device in their spare time, with no clear plans or a roadmap, with 4+ years outdated components, incompatible with anything else, running hoping that maybe some day it will run a derivate of an OS that said officials consider highly suspicious... Oh yeah baby!

That is not how it works. Have a product ready, with a proven track record, that you can just take off the shelf and sell in tens of thousands, then they might take a smidgen of a notice. Until then, you can dream.

OpenBSD had a reason for being famous 15-20 years ago when security sucked, also in Linux. Things have changed, and a default installation of a minimal debian (which loosely corresponds to a default installation of openbsd) is (give or take) just as secure.

OpenBSD is about the core system. With it you have nothing to work with on a "phone" (or a mobile computer with telephone capabilities). So yes, it might be possible at some point to run OpenBSD, or even OS/2, but you cannot reasonably be asking Jörg to take care of this.

Let's hope we get a working Neo900 with *anything* running on it, be it Maemo or Debian (which are the likely candidates). THEN we can talk OpenBSD.

I let you explain openBSD guys why their constant code audit is useless.
And I'm not so definitive about linux's security : if I want a very secured mobile device, I would tend to trust peoples who make security their first concern more than the others.
Today, I don't know well the security level of a minimal debian installation... But on last September, wasn't bash the default shell of debian ?

Anyway, I think you miss the point (and I would be happy this discussion took place on the other topic 5 monthes ago).
I'm not saying "Making OpenBSD run on Neo900 should be a priority"
But "Do you think OpenBSD could run on Neo900 ? OpenBSD community may be happy to be aware an open phone oriented toward security and privacy is about to exist... Furthermore if it's open enough to let them a chance to make their OS run on it"

If this project interests many communities (especially security focused ones), far more peoples could contribute and donate.
From now, I almost didn't heard of Neo900 elsewhere than on this forum. It make me think we probably miss a wide number of potential contributors.

Nah. Was just being a bit provocative

The thing is: the only thing Jörg & co. could do would be to approach OpenBSD (post in mailing list or forum, etc.) and do some PR. I think they have enough to do with what they have to do.

BUT! Nothing stops *you* from doing that!

As an additional comment, I'd be careful with making any security claims about the Neo900 (or any hardware). There *is* one big security-related advantage, and that is the fact that the CPU (software) can sandbox the SIM. This cannot be underestimated. It is a BIG THING.

... nevertheless too low-level. It's not like OpenBSD or most OSs have even a concept of what a SIM card is (in the context of the OS). So from the software point of view there's no security advantage (or selling point).

So it's not like anyone will go and say "hey, my SIM is sandboxed, I can now disable my firewall"

So the only "selling point" would be the vague, fuzzy, idea of having something related to "security" in common. This of course may trigger some interest in security-minded people, but the problem with the Neo900 is that you have to want it no-matter-what. I don't think marketing will do anything for this project. Either you wanted the Neo900 before it was even conceived as a plan, or you didn't. If you did and you got the bucks you'll buy it (and I will).

People who didn't dream of this like 3-4 years ago are unlikely to be interested in it.
They will root/mod their android S[N+1] crap and pretend they have made a conscious, balanced, choice and that they're "secure enough" and "private enough". After all, most don't even know what's fu^H^Hhitting them left and right all the time. And those who know have learned to live with it.

So no, I don't expect masses of people joining the Neo900 ranks at this stage. Not even from oh-so-security-minded OpenBSD people.

But that's just my opinion. Hopefully I'm wrong.

Wow! An interview with Snowden culminating in a discussion about Oliver's junk - of 33 centimet... err... minutes length.

I take your point, but your example isn't strictly accurate: /bin/sh was symlinked to /bin/dash (Debian Almquist SHell) not BASH. BASH was only used in interactive user logins, there was actually quite a big fuss when Debian made the switch because all the bashisms had to be removed from system scripts.




Anyway, back on topic...

I've been thinking about this over the last couple of days. I didn't want to make any rash decisions, but I've come to the disappointing realisation that I just can't afford a Neo900. The new price is literally the only thing, I love the concept and I've really enjoyed following the project (I've read every single post in this thread). I would just feel too guilty if I spent this much money on it.

Please don't misinterpret this as trolling, I really do want this project to be a success! In fact I was so sure this was going to be the device for me that I donated EUR200 instead of 100 when I discovered it. I guess that money really will be a donation now, but I don't mind... put it to good use!

I still believe in the project and think it'll be a success for those who can afford it, I'll just have to satisfy myself with the knowledge that although I won't get the device, some of you will.

I look forward to seeing all the cool things you achieve with it (I'll still be reading, don't let me down!).