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Poll: Did you order a Jolla tablet?
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Did you order a Jolla tablet?

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ggabriel is offline ggabriel
2015-07-03 , 09:24
Posts: 728 | Thanked: 1,217 times | Joined on Oct 2011
#391
Originally Posted by ZogG View Post
If you have time to go through tweets of somehow related to Jolla people and you follow blogs, articles and speculations from fan site, to go through forums and TJC — good for you. But i would expect to have one proper source and that source should be updated.
[...]
I think you miss my point, and I also think that you have the best intentions. My point is only related to the tablet, I know that Jolla "owes" us an explanation about the display. I already said what they would say, it's not hard to fill in the blanks there, but people want a blog post with loads of details for some reason.

The more we ask of Jolla, the longer it will take for the product to get to us. They are most likely _not_ waiting on somebody else - they're working. Micromanaging and microreporting only delay projects.
Trust me - if you report every week, people will want more; if you report every day; people will want more; if you report every second, people will want a webcam; when you have a webcam recording the Jolla offices, people will start questioning how often sailors go and get coffee.
While it isn't unreasonable to ask for that blog post that they promised, it won't change anything and it will give us very little information.

I am not experienced with building embedded hardware and software, but I can challenge you to build a tablet with your own OS, you'll see how long it takes, you'll see what the problems are along the road, and you'll have an idea of how long this can take. In short - you'll be able to fill in the blanks yourself.

Also I gave you a lot of examples of lack of communication, while you keep telling "it's okay for me", then please provide me examples of good communication... And do not tell "they told about delay" as they HAD to, especially when it's second time. And do not tell me about roadmap that was introduced years after release and mostly it;s changelog
Yeah, well, this goes out of topic as you aren't talking only about the tablet but of the broader subject of communication around Sailfish.
I agree that it hasn't been optimal, but it's getting better. Think about that - things take time to materialise, and as you pointed out, there are the meetings and not many people are attending. I bet not many people outside Jolla are committing code to the open source bits either (it'd be nice to have an analysis).
These last 2 points are only depressing and it leaves us with a bunch of us that complain and complain and very few of us who actually to stuff. Do you want to know what my guess is? Those few of us who actually contribute and do something may have a dev tablet already - and that's ok, I wouldn't give it to people who write blog posts if I were Jolla, I'd give it to people who can hack stuff, write code, etc..

All in all, I still think that there isn't a lack of communication problem - there may be opportunities to improve communication, and certainly different people will have different perceptions. I am ok with how the tablet delivery is being managed personally - I want the tablet, not a blog post. But that's just me, maybe some other people are with me though.

For all other issues around communication that aren't related to the tablet delivery, we should really join the sfos meetings.
 
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Dave999 is offline Dave999
2015-07-03 , 10:38
Posts: 7,075 | Thanked: 9,073 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side
#392
Originally Posted by jalyst View Post
My money's on a delay, & I think we'll get answers to many (not all) of the lingering Qns within this mth, I must admit I'll be very disappointed if we don't.

Someone suggested earlier in this thread, that we should start compiling all of the things that are major issues & unanswered Qns, how about we actually do that?
Putting some structure behind it all, so then at least if someone from Jolla does decide to clear-up a bunch of things, they can do so much more easily.

Feels a bit like Ground Hog Day, but it's certainly more constructive...
basically, I have only one question that is a blocker for all other questions...I even went so far as to register at jolla.togheter...
But still nothing

What happened to the Information flow regarding crowdfunding tablet?
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MartinK is offline MartinK
2015-07-03 , 10:52
Posts: 1,548 | Thanked: 7,510 times | Joined on Apr 2010 @ Czech Republic
#393
Originally Posted by ZogG View Post
Again, i'll remind you about the meetings, i think you would agree that they are great thing, and i would remind that they were made because of rant "lack of communication". Btw pay attention that they are not so active lately and mostly coz of lack of users.
Yeah, I'm also kinda worried about that - but considering how many of the issues raised in the previous meetings (SIP integration, allowing more libraries and APIs in Harbour, community translation service, providing more information about the "Sailfish Secure" initiative, the Chum initiative, working SDL, paid apps support, etc.) are waiting for Jolla to do their part of the deal it then is understandable that people are not raising more questions.

Don't get me wrong - there have been a few issues requested on the Community Meetings that have already been resolved (Harbour support for Python and QtPositioning for example) but I'm afraid that most of the things the community asked for/about are still "pending".

Still I think it is a shame to let the community meetings idle for so long - anybody willing to raise a few questions to trigger a meeting ?
All the flame about the Tablet looks like a good input for a "Tablet Q/A session" and asking about the status of some of the items requested earlier might also be a good idea.

So any volunteers ? :-)
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Dave999 is offline Dave999
2015-07-03 , 11:02
Posts: 7,075 | Thanked: 9,073 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side
#394
I want to ask ...But I don't use IrC anymore. Why not have it here at TMO or Together.jolla?

1. why not update the blog with progress and on indiegogo refer to a blog post that is 2-3 month old...

2. how jolla looks on together jolla...purpose now and for the future.

3. How do jolla define their crowd funding campaign? What have they learned...

4. Would it be possible to set up a chat q/a session with Marc for business rel questions and one with maybe stskeeps with more tech?

5. What video format will be supported in tablet?

6. Would it be possible to do video blog post showing tablet next week?

7. Please update your blog...

8. How do you planning to attract more Devs and apps to your platform?

9. How to get an answer from you regarding tablet? Blog? Together? Indiegogo?

10. The million dollar question...what's is the current estimation for Tablet shipment date?

11. Any stats to share regarding crowd funding campaign. Country by country?

12. What happened with the result of the tAblet survey result? That was in the pipe...

13. Could you explain something of this screen issue that you are working on...

14. Do you care about the voting at jolla together? Let's say if something got 100 votes, shouldn't you at lest post you view on it?

15. Do you look differently on your presentation(pre-release) of the phone and your tablet when it comes to public...and if so the phone was developed behind closed doors and tablet crowd funding, would that affect your strategy in any way?
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Last edited by Dave999; 2015-07-03 at 11:51.
 
jalyst is offline jalyst
2015-07-03 , 11:11
Moderator | Posts: 5,320 | Thanked: 4,464 times | Joined on Oct 2009
#395
Originally Posted by MartinK View Post
Still I think it is a shame to let the community meetings idle for so long - anybody willing to raise a few questions to trigger a meeting ?
All the flame about the Tablet looks like a good input for a "Tablet Q/A session" and asking about the status of some of the items requested earlier might also be a good idea. So any volunteers ? :-)

THIS... Basically what I was suggesting... :-)
I'm not putting my hand up, been there done that, maybe someone else will.
 
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ZogG is offline ZogG
2015-07-03 , 13:47
Posts: 1,389 | Thanked: 1,857 times | Joined on Feb 2010 @ Israel
#396
I just don't think that I would need to write to tweeter, TJC, IRC, ML and ten maybe, maybe, maybe I'll get some answers.
I just don't feel right when customer should run after company, especially when company just ignores him.
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ggabriel is offline ggabriel
2015-07-03 , 13:54
Posts: 728 | Thanked: 1,217 times | Joined on Oct 2011
#397
Originally Posted by Dave999 View Post
So whats your take...will we get our tablets within 25 days or are we up for another delay?

waiting for that BIG BANG...we are ready for release blog post any second now.
Your tablet will appear one day in your post. It will be as simple as that ;-)

Actually, that's not true, they still have to collect VAT. If Jolla can, they should start doing that soonish as people almost always have trouble with payment, unless you have >3 credit cards or >2 debit cards or 3 paypal accounts.
 
P@t is offline P@t
2015-07-03 , 15:16
Posts: 343 | Thanked: 819 times | Joined on Jan 2010 @ Paris, France
#398
My wild guess:
there is still some uncertainty regarding 'something' (could be how to collect VAT, how to allow a change in postal address, or the flash of sw into tablet...etc...)
If they post 'we do not know yet the exact schedule for the delivery but should start around August' then there will be people screaming and crying about how incompetent Jolla is
So they prefer to postpone information for when they can be sure about the timing and the process to get the tablet.

My personal comment:
- I do not believe there is a problem with hardware at this stage.
- They should (could) have provided some info last month about 'we are more or less on time'. Now this is too close to end-July to say something like that.
- I am expecting a delivery more in September given holidays (for me and for them)
- I am (still) quite respectful for what they can accomplish with such a small company, given that we are waiting for other news too (like 100% FOSS, hardware partner)
- They probably do not spend enough time for DIT but this is a sign that they are very busy. The link with the community is probably where they should be cautious to remain 'unlike' but they probably have some pressures to get into more customers (and not only the first wave of fans).
- This is very easy to comment about what they do and what they do not do! But less so to act and do the business! And in the area of PR, you have to find a balance between providing info but not admitting weaknesses, between finding the telling words and telling the whole story, between raising hopes and being to the point, between losing some clients and gaining other clients... Criticizing is fair but also confessing that there are situations where this is not that easy

Conclusion:
I am still badly a Jolla fan , enjoying my phone that no one knows , and eager to have them growing but not too fast
But hopefully I have other things in life that I can enjoy while waiting for my tablet
 
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ZogG is offline ZogG
2015-07-03 , 18:50
Posts: 1,389 | Thanked: 1,857 times | Joined on Feb 2010 @ Israel
#399
Originally Posted by P@t View Post
My wild guess:
there is still some uncertainty regarding 'something' (could be how to collect VAT, how to allow a change in postal address, or the flash of sw into tablet...etc...)
If they post 'we do not know yet the exact schedule for the delivery but should start around August' then there will be people screaming and crying about how incompetent Jolla is
So they prefer to postpone information for when they can be sure about the timing and the process to get the tablet.
....

My personal comment:
- I do not believe there is a problem with hardware at this stage.
I would disagree, when they informed us about delay, community took it pretty well and with understanding.
And i think most people should at least know what to expect. With best and worst case when it can happen. E.g. "We had a delay and certain problems that we need to fix before release. We hope they'll be solved till X, but it can take even more time and we hope till Y we'll send fore sure. If there would be other delays, we'll inform you as we know our selves."
But currently you "believe", there are no HW problems. I don't think there is such thing in "believe" there is no HW problems in campaign that already was delayed 2 months. I don't think there should be any misunderstanding and no certainty at the point of the "product already should be released, but we had a small delay"

As well as i'm pretty sure there are delay, as no promised details to screen were given and all we got was "better" display. I don't think that company can use this "better display" sentence while they do not provide specs of new display. It sounds like mom telling her kid, that she wouldn't buy him a toy, as she'll buy one day better one, just not to upset him and do not tell the truth that he probably wouldn't get this toy.

Originally Posted by P@t View Post
- They should (could) have provided some info last month about 'we are more or less on time'. Now this is too close to end-July to say something like that.
Is it? And if there are still problems? So everytime it will be "oh, it's too late we'll release next month anyway" and this "too late" can actually be several more months. Better to do things later than never!

Originally Posted by P@t View Post
- I am (still) quite respectful for what they can accomplish with such a small company, given that we are waiting for other news too (like 100% FOSS, hardware partner)
Small company? Please check other indie and smaller devs/companies at kickstarter, where they inform people and do all the stuff.
You don';t even need to go far away and check how TOHKBDv2 was handaled. 3 people not only packed every part (afaik they even soldered a lot by themselves), but kept people informed and communicated more than Jolla that have people, whose job is to communicate and responsible for PR. They have few people related to community and communication. This "small company" and "limited resources" are starting to sound as every excuse. But again, they know of their resources and abilities and they should this through BEFORE they make campaign.

Originally Posted by P@t View Post
- This is very easy to comment about what they do and what they do not do! But less so to act and do the business! And in the area of PR, you have to find a balance between providing info but not admitting weaknesses, between finding the telling words and telling the whole story, between raising hopes and being to the point, between losing some clients and gaining other clients... Criticizing is fair but also confessing that there are situations where this is not that easy
They put themselves in this situation. And funny thing that it is happening second time. I think it only shows that they as a company should at least learn on own mistakes and do not repeat them everytime.
They made huge campaign and PR and even used wrong wording as "opensource" and "community driven" (right.... driven.... as in money, but where community has no F# clue what's going on), but after money were gathered — few posts and silence. Sounds like any campaign of politician before vote
And yes i expect from any company that respects itself and customers to even share failures and problems (sure in proportions), but if person who has no second though to ask money and make promises, but have problem to take responsibility(and informing of problems is responsibility), only shows something, right?

You can make assumptions about them 100% opensourcing and that that's what takes time, but we hear about opensourcing from day one (before we even got phone) and what was opensourced? Even promised parts are still closed after several years.

I think people should start to process some info and look to the facts and stop just "believe". If it looks like a duck, smells like a duck and quacks like a duck, probably it's a duck.
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Last edited by ZogG; 2015-07-03 at 18:51. Reason: typos fix. /s/here/hear
 
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ZogG is offline ZogG
2015-07-03 , 18:59
Posts: 1,389 | Thanked: 1,857 times | Joined on Feb 2010 @ Israel
#400
Originally Posted by ggabriel View Post
Your tablet will appear one day in your post. It will be as simple as that ;-)

Actually, that's not true, they still have to collect VAT. If Jolla can, they should start doing that soonish as people almost always have trouble with payment, unless you have >3 credit cards or >2 debit cards or 3 paypal accounts.
Like cable company sending tech guy. And you need to wait whole day till he comes as you never get a proper time. And if the person want to go to holiday abroad, he needs to postpone everything and wait till Jolla arrives?
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