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Feathers McGraw is offline Feathers McGraw
2015-10-24 , 10:07
Posts: 654 | Thanked: 2,368 times | Joined on Jul 2014 @ UK
#121
whining about SFOS browser
Wouldn't you rather Jolla spend their precious development time working on the actual operating system instead of spending loads of time on one app? Their job is to provide a stable and flexible platform for other developers to build apps on, not to single-handedly do everything themselves.

The Sailfish browser is "good enough" for most things, just like the AOSP browser is "good enough" for most things but not particularly awe inspiring. On every OS I can think of, one of the first things most people do is install a 3rd party browser to replace the built-in one. Like other platforms, the browser category has received a lot of 3rd party developer attention and we have WebPirate and WebCat to replace the default browser.

There's a double standard here too: Google development of the AOSP browser is minimal compared to Chrome because they want people to use Chrome instead, and improving the AOSP browser benefits all the other companies shipping custom Android distributions without Play services. I don't know why we expect Jolla to do so much work on their open browser when other companies don't.
 

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Mikkosssss is offline Mikkosssss
2015-10-24 , 10:48
Posts: 645 | Thanked: 519 times | Joined on Apr 2012 @ Finland
#122
Originally Posted by MisterMaster View Post
I am too lazy to check myself now. Is USB tethering enabled in the UI. I guess not?
It works as good as before.

Edit: Yes I mean UI. Its there.
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Last edited by Mikkosssss; 2015-10-24 at 13:46.
 

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pichlo is offline pichlo
2015-10-24 , 12:54
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#123
Originally Posted by Mikkosssss View Post
It works as good as before.
Please read the question:

Originally Posted by MisterMaster View Post
I am too lazy to check myself now. Is USB tethering enabled in the UI. I guess not?
 

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pichlo is offline pichlo
2015-10-24 , 13:05
Posts: 6,453 | Thanked: 20,983 times | Joined on Sep 2012 @ UK
#124
Originally Posted by Feathers McGraw View Post
Wouldn't you rather Jolla spend their precious development time working on the actual operating system instead of spending loads of time on one app?
You may want to split the hairs like that but I don't. Neither should other Jolla's customers. They buy a product. A product is composed of many parts. The browser is just one cog in a big machine, as is Phone, Messages, Email, Clock... Jolla itself reinforces that view by never offering updates to those packages separately, they always offer the whole thing as a monolithic block. So, to update the browser, they force me to reboot the phone. Even evil Microsoft does not do that.

Why should a user care where individual parts come from? Select few may care and good for them, but my point is that they should not have to. Unless Jolla wants to forever remain a geeksphone, with all the implications of a limited user base and never making a big splash they once said they wanted to make.
 

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Feathers McGraw is offline Feathers McGraw
2015-10-24 , 14:03
Posts: 654 | Thanked: 2,368 times | Joined on Jul 2014 @ UK
#125
Originally Posted by pichlo View Post
The browser is just one cog in a big machine, as is Phone, Messages, Email, Clock... Jolla itself reinforces that view by never offering updates to those packages separately, they always offer the whole thing as a monolithic block. So, to update the browser, they force me to reboot the phone. Even evil Microsoft does not do that.
Are you comparing Sailfish to desktop Windows, or to Windows phone? Do updates to Internet Explorer on WP not come with system updates?

I am comparing Sailfish to Android. In Android, you only get a browser update when you upgrade Android itself, since it's baked into the ROM. If you install a browser that isn't part of the ROM, then you get updates as and when they are ready... the same as e.g. installing WebPirate on Sailfish.

I don't understand the complaint. Sailfish ships with a reasonable browser, and even better browsers exist in the store, just like every other platform!
 

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Copernicus is offline Copernicus
2015-10-24 , 14:25
Posts: 1,986 | Thanked: 7,698 times | Joined on Dec 2010 @ Dayton, Ohio
#126
Alright, yeah, I'm pushing the argument for open source a little hard here. But still:

Originally Posted by pichlo View Post
This is exactly the kind of arrogance that is the reason Open Source will never make a hole in the world.
Ok, I don't get this. Open Source is not a company. It isn't a project. It isn't trying to get anywhere. It's just a way for folks to share code. You can choose to be open with a competitive project, or a collaborative project, or just some code you've noodled together on your own; there's no requirement that Open = Good or Open = Solves My Problem.

There are certain standards my superiors expect from my work. I have every right to expect similar standards from from other people's work, Open Source or not.
Well certainly, you can and should have expectations for a piece of code! My only question is, why would the creator of an Open Source program listen? Sure, if you're paying him for a product, you want value for your money. But that's a different story -- that has nothing to do with whether the code is open or closed...
 

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aegis is offline aegis
2015-10-24 , 14:52
Posts: 702 | Thanked: 2,059 times | Joined on Feb 2011 @ UK
#127
Originally Posted by Feathers McGraw View Post
I don't understand the complaint. Sailfish ships with a reasonable browser, and even better browsers exist in the store, just like every other platform!
The complaint started because they've broken what cut and paste support they did have in the browser before 2.0.

And yes they should ship the browser independently to the OS just as Apple do with Safari.
 

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ste-phan is offline ste-phan
2015-10-24 , 16:35
Posts: 1,197 | Thanked: 2,710 times | Joined on Jan 2010 @ Hanoi
#128
Originally Posted by mosen View Post
I was a little blinded in my judgement by a new feature that is seen in the video. Upstarting native apps now shows the homescreen with "loading indicator" much quicker than before giving the impression of faster action. But the actual loading time of the apps is quite equal!

How i know? Well i fell in the well of "ClusterSSH" wich gave me the power to execute Sailfish app starts on three different devices simultaniously



stay tuned
Got my tuning knob glued fixed..

With 3 devices and methodical approach hardly ever found in "pro phone reviews" this will get interesting.
Somebody will ask if per preliminary measure you have cleaned up the btfrs file system in order to dress it up for optimal bench performance on each device but you know that I am certain
 

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mosen is offline mosen
2015-10-24 , 17:34
Community Council | Posts: 1,669 | Thanked: 10,227 times | Joined on Nov 2014 @ Lower Rhine
#129
Originally Posted by ste-phan View Post
Somebody will ask if per preliminary measure you have cleaned up the btfrs file system in order to dress it up for optimal bench performance on each device but you know that I am certain
I am honored
Yes, i did balance all of them. Main remaining difference between the 3 phones is still:
- 1.1.7. phone is used since 07/14 by my wife and has some accounts and few diskspace, took an hour to balance.
-1.1.9. phone is from 09/15 and barely used, no accounts only updated in 5 steps and used as a tethering device.
-2.0.0 my main device from 01/14, factory reseted recently but nevertheless the one with most history.

But please do not expect to much from my first attempt. I even forgot to show version number of the phones as proof...
And i am not satified with "meaningfulness" of my test case.
Hope you will have an even better idea what to show @Ste-phan.
I may be doing another version after the first attempt with all phones facory reseted freshly.
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MartinK is offline MartinK
2015-10-24 , 18:53
Posts: 1,548 | Thanked: 7,510 times | Joined on Apr 2010 @ Czech Republic
#130
Originally Posted by pichlo View Post
Jolla itself reinforces that view by never offering updates to those packages separately, they always offer the whole thing as a monolithic block. So, to update the browser, they force me to reboot the phone. Even evil Microsoft does not do that.
I think this is just caused by Jolla having insufficient resources for updating individual packages - because even if you update just a single package there is still a lot of stuff the individual update can influence that you need to test before releasing it to end users. And that can add up on QA resources quite quickly.

On the other hand just QAing it all at once before a batch update can save a lot of QA time as you just need to run all the tests once.

This is still hopefully just a temporary thing, as you should really release at least security updates as fast as possible, not make them dependent on non-critical bug fixes and feature additions. And major Linux distros manage to do this just fine.

But compared to other mobile platforms I guess even batched but regular security updates are a huge improvement.
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