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nthn is offline nthn
2016-11-07 , 15:14
Posts: 764 | Thanked: 2,889 times | Joined on Jun 2014
#51
Originally Posted by dovf View Post
I have no experience with XMPP MUC (or whatever it's called -- using XMPP in a group- or room-oriented fashion). But that may be an indication of part of the difference -- I've never encountered a means of using XMPP for group- or room-oriented communications that is as easy as matrix is...
The current 'group chats' (MUC/Multi User Chat) in XMPP are actually just IRC chatrooms with XMPP behind it, which means they're really dumb and people just use IRC for chatroom communications instead. However, there is something in the works called 'MIX', which is what most people would think of when they think of group chats. I won't go into details because I'm not an expert on the subject, but essentially, MUC (current) is crap, MIX (future) is good. We aren't in the future yet.

Originally Posted by gaelic View Post
No. After 5mins the message will still go to nirvana. This is intended as far as I understand.
No, proper offline messaging (so messaging that actually works) is on the todo list, as I mentioned earlier in the thread.

Originally Posted by dovf View Post
Of course, that's why I am not advocating WhatsApp, which is actively blocking connections from outside its network. So I don't expect to ever see a WhatsApp-matrix bridge (any more than I expect to see a ring-WA bridge, or a tox-WA bridge, or an XMPP-WA bridge, or anything bridge with WA).
But still, if you want communication between different protocols, someone will always have to be responsible for the different bridges between those protocols, to accomodate any changes. Usually, a protocol doesn't change very often, but when it does the changes tend to be quite large, so if no one or not enough people are around to work on that bridge, no one will be able to cross it anymore.
 

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chilango is offline chilango
2016-11-07 , 18:53
Posts: 509 | Thanked: 626 times | Joined on Jul 2012 @ Mexico/Germany
#52
Sorry for my ignorance.
Im didnt a programer but is it possible to make the program modular?
Like in Hardware. In Europe you HD, HD+, DAB etc pp. every some years there change the standards so you need a new TV/Radio or a converterbox.

For this one i have in the last years a mediacenter. If they change the standard, i buy only e new USB-Device/PCIe-Device to send and receive. The hole Mediacenter is the same.

Is it possible to made the program and only a library responsable for the protocol? So if somewhat change. We, (someone only have to adapt the library?
 

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Feathers McGraw is offline Feathers McGraw
2016-11-07 , 19:20
Posts: 654 | Thanked: 2,368 times | Joined on Jul 2014 @ UK
#53
Originally Posted by chilango View Post
Is it possible to made the program and only a library responsable for the protocol? So if somewhat change. We, (someone only have to adapt the library?
It's still a lot more work than you might think, and updating the backend stuff is more difficult and thankless than building a shiny frontend.

Telepathy does a similar thing to what you're describing (using a core framework with components for different transports) which is great in principle, but look at how long it has taken/is taking to drag upstream kicking and screaming towards implementing some of the more vital XEPs (XMPP extensions) for XMPP on mobile.

"someone can just do X" =/= "someone will do X"

Edit: also, see how often something breaks in Hangish, despite the developer's continued input. It's a great client, but each change to Hangouts can break everything without warning, and take a long time to resolve. In the meantime, you're stuck with a broken client. For a "translation" library to work you need quite a lot of notice in advance about changes to protocols, which won't happen with proprietary messaging apps. Ironically, Hangouts is based on XMPP with some proprietary extensions thrown in...
 

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aviau is offline aviau
2016-11-07 , 20:15
Posts: 6 | Thanked: 41 times | Joined on Jul 2016
#54
Originally Posted by chilango View Post
So explain me how to do offline message without server?
Or maybe define offline messaging how you understand.
Ring dev here.

Ring send messages via the DHT. The DHT stores them for a certain amount of time, which depends on the current traffic. But in general we can send messages, go offline, and have it received even if the receipient joins the network 10 minutes after.

This is configurable and depends on a lot of factors, but should the network be generous enough to store every offline message you want it to store, you could send messages with hours of interval.

However, there is currently no guarantees. Only by being online you can ensure that your message goes trough.
 

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aviau is offline aviau
2016-11-07 , 20:16
Posts: 6 | Thanked: 41 times | Joined on Jul 2016
#55
Originally Posted by gaelic View Post
No. After 5mins the message will still go to nirvana. This is intended as far as I understand.
Yes and no. This can be improved but we don't yet plan to guarantee any longer than 5 minutes, even if it could be better than that.
 

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Feathers McGraw is offline Feathers McGraw
2016-11-07 , 22:41
Posts: 654 | Thanked: 2,368 times | Joined on Jul 2014 @ UK
#56
Originally Posted by aviau View Post
Ring dev here.
Reddit reporting in
 

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MartinK is offline MartinK
2016-11-07 , 22:44
Posts: 1,548 | Thanked: 7,510 times | Joined on Apr 2010 @ Czech Republic
#57
Originally Posted by aviau View Post
Yes and no. This can be improved but we don't yet plan to guarantee any longer than 5 minutes, even if it could be better than that.
I understand this helps to cover short term disconnects (switching between access points, switching from WiFi to mobile connection, etc.) but I would not really call it "offline" messages, unless both participants can get offline for at least a couple hours at a time.

What's the main problem with this ? DoS potential (users flooding the network with events/node storage exhaustion ?).

I guess UI could kinda work around this to a degree by showing if a given message was delivered yet or not, right ? It would not be good if messages could just vanish without any side being notified about that.
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theonelaw is offline theonelaw
2016-11-08 , 02:32
Posts: 671 | Thanked: 1,630 times | Joined on Aug 2010
#58
Originally Posted by aviau View Post
Ring dev here.

Ring send messages via the DHT. The DHT stores them for a certain amount of time, which depends on the current traffic. But in general we can send messages, go offline, and have it received even if the receipient joins the network 10 minutes after.

This is configurable and depends on a lot of factors, but should the network be generous enough to store every offline message you want it to store, you could send messages with hours of interval.

However, there is currently no guarantees. Only by being online you can ensure that your message goes trough.
Is it possible to have a server at home receive the message,
which server then lights up your mobile when you get back in signal?
Just curious, seeing the mention of multi-device operability.
The issue of being able to receive while offline is important
to those of us who prowl the nether regions of the planet...

cheers
__________________
Three n900s: One for stable working platform,
One for development testing Chopping Onions
One for saltwater immersion power testing resurrected ! parts scavenging

My Mods for Wonko's Advanced Clock Plugin:
ISO8601 clock mod and Momental_IST clock mod

Printing your Email with the N900
 

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aviau is offline aviau
2016-11-21 , 20:27
Posts: 6 | Thanked: 41 times | Joined on Jul 2016
#59
> I guess UI could kinda work around this to a degree by showing if a given message was delivered yet or not, right ?

It already does.


> What's the main problem with this ? DoS potential (users flooding the network with events/node storage exhaustion ?).

Yes.

> Is it possible to have a server at home receive the message, which server then lights up your mobile when you get back in signal?

Not yet, but it will work like that in the future. All devices will eventually sync the message backlog. So if your server is online to receive message and your phones comes on, the phone will fetch missed messages from the server.
 

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maegon9y00 is offline maegon9y00
2016-11-21 , 22:51
Posts: 100 | Thanked: 307 times | Joined on Jan 2015 @ Argentina
#60
It's sad they ommited ring beta 2 version to ubuntu 14.xx. I am using linuxmint 17.X based on ubuntu 14.xx, is Long Term Support 2 years more. So I can't test it.

If they not support anymore ubuntu 14.xx how I would expect n900, or n9 support ?
 

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