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gerbick
2017-01-15 , 19:05
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#51
Originally Posted by juiceme View Post
However I disagree with you on the latter points. I see no merit in the waste you call "modern websites" and nice enough I don't have to use those.
We differ. Why should I agree to limited functionality due to the restrained uses that you find okay yet I'd find far too restrictive? If it's on the Internet, I should be able to get to it without issue - Adobe Flash content withstanding. Yet, "Oh, I don't use <modern social media for instance>, I use <insert open source option instead> only" is what drives half of this **** proposed on this site.

I can surf the sites I need pretty well, for example TMO works okay.
I cannot view heavy CSS3/HTML5 or animated sites.

And what are those communication platforms you so desire; I can use voicecall, email, sms, irc... In fact I have never needed anything else.
And I require more. Slack (for business), Hangouts (also for business and I need multiple user conversations enabled, Hangish does this on Sailfish), and JIRA/Trello (also for business) for instance. I could list out more, but I'm moving one organization away from Yammer and Skype for Business into Slack to avoid being in Microsoft's lap.

Our needs differ. Why should you dictate what I have access to when your needs are far more limited/different than my own? That's the issue. There's nothing "open" about these kinds of talk.

I hear "Well it works for me" far too often when honestly, a lot of you people would be happy with Lynx, VI and a terminal. If that was only option that could be supported, I don't want it.
 

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pichlo is offline pichlo
2017-01-15 , 19:17
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#52
Things matter if you need to use them. Whether there is water on Mars or not is of interest to me but it does not really matter as I will never need it. The boot time (or uptime, for that matter) fall into the same category.

FWIW, I have just measured the boot time of my daughter's Android tablet, just out of interest. 50 seconds.
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Zeta is offline Zeta
2017-01-15 , 21:03
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#53
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
And I require more. Slack (for business), Hangouts (also for business and I need multiple user conversations enabled, Hangish does this on Sailfish), and JIRA/Trello (also for business) for instance. I could list out more, but I'm moving one organization away from Yammer and Skype for Business into Slack to avoid being in Microsoft's lap.

Our needs differ. Why should you dictate what I have access to when your needs are far more limited/different than my own? That's the issue. There's nothing "open" about these kinds of talk.

I hear "Well it works for me" far too often when honestly, a lot of you people would be happy with Lynx, VI and a terminal. If that was only option that could be supported, I don't want it.
Funnily, any phone for sale today (or at least 95% ?) fills theses needs, yet you don't want them (it seems), and explain to the population there - that for some don't need thoses fonctions - that they shouldn't dictate you to a device that can't do thoses functions
 

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gerbick
2017-01-15 , 21:25
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#54
Originally Posted by Zeta View Post
Funnily, any phone for sale today (or at least 95% ?) fills theses needs, yet you don't want them (it seems), and explain to the population there - that for some don't need thoses fonctions - that they shouldn't dictate you to a device that can't do thoses functions
Nothing really funny about it. My phones since the N900 has fully supported all of my needs in regards to my work; however it does not satisfy my want to step away from Android or iOS.

In the US, Sailfish OS isn't exactly a proper option if you want more than 2G in most of the locales. I'm still waiting for an official release.

I now have an iPhone (company mandated and purchased) that actually does what I want, have stated and then some. But man, I absolutely hate the loss of freedom. And jailbreaking is not an option.

Yet, I'm here, been here for almost 10 years because I came for Maemo, I came for an optimized pocketable linux device, found and purchased the 770, N800, N810, N900 and N9.

And I'd love for the community to get a device that satisfies our needs as well as a good portion of our wants. I do not want to lose my freedom nor do I want to be limited by extremely myopic views on what other people should receive by people with extremely limited views on what a device should do.

So... not sure what's funny when that's been my entire statement all along. I think of not only myself - I handle that - but don't want to dispatch what others may want unless it's far too restricting.
 

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Zeta is offline Zeta
2017-01-15 , 23:42
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#55
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
So... not sure what's funny when that's been my entire statement all along. I think of not only myself - I handle that - but don't want to dispatch what others may want unless it's far too restricting.
"Funnily" may have been lost in translation (not a native speaker here), and not to be taken exactly as "funny".

I'm just playing devil's advocate there, trying to point out that everybody has needs/wants that a lot of device can fit, yet cannot find one that fits all : availability, support, OS of choice, freedom, open source, up to date software from big cloud companies, performance, camera, keyboard, screen size...

Main problems with the services you and other (me included obviously) need, is that we depends on the service provider to dictate us the platform they support...
Like how a web designer dictates us which browser we need to use to show their website by their selection of technologies (ActiveX, Silverlight, Flash, CCS/HTML...).
And that's not something where niche platforms like ours have a lot to say (except using standards protocols).
 

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gerbick
2017-01-15 , 23:57
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#56
Originally Posted by Zeta View Post
"Funnily" may have been lost in translation (not a native speaker here), and not to be taken exactly as "funny".
I do appreciate the clarification and you are right. I did take it wrongly, but not as a negative thing.

I'm just playing devil's advocate there, trying to point out that everybody has needs/wants that a lot of device can fit, yet cannot find one that fits all : availability, support, OS of choice, freedom, open source, up to date software from big cloud companies, performance, camera, keyboard, screen size...
Yep. But in the end, the lowest common denominator here at least is that we do not want it to be locked into Google's or Apple's ecosystem. Or Microsoft's for that matter.

Main problems with the services you and other (me included obviously) need, is that we depends on the service provider to dictate us the platform they support...
You're 100% correct here.

And that's not something where niche platforms like ours have a lot to say (except using standards protocols).
Here's the issue though. We actually agree more than not; however the limiting factor is that with all of this skill and concern about security yet no solution has come forth that's greater than a terminal app to discuss these things?

Something HUGE is amiss here. But we agree - platform providers dictate to us all too often and shorten the lifespan of our already artificially obsolete hardware.
 

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theonelaw is offline theonelaw
2017-01-16 , 02:15
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#57
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
platform providers dictate to us all too often and shorten the lifespan of our already artificially obsolete hardware.
This is the source of a lot of anguish,
but some of us have developed a habit of examining whether or not
that shiny new 'provided' is actually just another mousetrap.

It seems too often that new latest and greatest arena
has gates that are remarkably one-way portals.
And provisions that require signing up usually signal
they intend to extract something later on.
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Printing your Email with the N900
 

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pichlo is offline pichlo
2017-01-16 , 07:04
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#58
Originally Posted by theonelaw View Post
And provisions that require signing up usually signal
they intend to extract something later on.
*cough* mumble mumble Jolla Harbour momble mumble ...
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pythoneye2 is offline pythoneye2
2017-01-16 , 11:50
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#59
Originally Posted by pichlo View Post
Things matter if you need to use them. Whether there is water on Mars or not is of interest to me but it does not really matter as I will never need it. The boot time (or uptime, for that matter) fall into the same category.

FWIW, I have just measured the boot time of my daughter's Android tablet, just out of interest. 50 seconds.
So you dont care for test or benchmark times.
Nobody needs fast evolution cycles and developer time is for free
 

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pichlo is offline pichlo
2017-01-16 , 14:05
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#60
Originally Posted by pythoneye2 View Post
So you dont care for test or benchmark times.
Nobody needs fast evolution cycles and developer time is for free
I did not say I don't care. I said it does not matter. What I care about or not is subjective. What matters is objective.

Unless I am directly affected by them, test times do not matter to me. Developers use them, so they matter to them. I of course become a developer myself from time to time and with my developer hat on, things start being important to me that aren't to me as a user. Such as a clearly written code or the existence of debug and test tools.

That is no different than the uptime of gerbick's servers versus of his pocket toys. What matters is context sensitive.
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Last edited by pichlo; 2017-01-16 at 14:39.
 

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