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	endsormeans	2017-09-11 , 17:03
	Posts: 3,141 \| Thanked: 8,161 times \| Joined on Feb 2013 @ From my Gabriola Island hermitage, near the Edge of the World	#11

convenience is the devil.
(this IS the place to post outrageously obvious statements isn't it?

)

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1-n770 (in retirement), 3-n800's / 3-n810's (still in daily use), 5-n900's ((3 are flawless, 1 loose usb ( parts), 1 has no telephony (parts))
3-nexus 5's : 1 w/ Floko Pie 9.1 (running beautifully) waiting for Stable Droid 10 rom, 1 w/ ̶Ubuntu Touch, 1 with Maru OS (intend maemo leste when ready)
1/2 - neo900 pre- "purchased" in 2013. N̶o̶w̶ ̶A̶w̶a̶i̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶r̶e̶f̶u̶n̶d̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶c̶e̶s̶s̶ ̶l̶a̶s̶t̶ ̶f̶e̶w̶ ̶y̶e̶a̶r̶s̶ - neo900 start up declared officially dead -
Lost invested funds.

PIMP MY N8X0 (Idiot's Guide and a video walkthrough)http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94294
THE LOST GRONMAYER CATALOGShttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...ight=gronmayer
N8X0 VIDEO ENCODING THE EASY WAYhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...ght=mediacoder
242gb ON N800http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90634
THE PAIN-FREE MAEMO DEVELOPMENT LIVE DISTRO-ISO FOR THE NOOB TO THE PROhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=95567
AFFORDABLE MASS PRODUCTION FOR MAEMO PARTShttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=93325

Meateo balloons now available @ Dave999's Meateo Emporium

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	pichlo	2017-09-12 , 06:59
	Posts: 6,447 \| Thanked: 20,981 times \| Joined on Sep 2012 @ UK	#12

Originally Posted by gerbick

It's why FOSS is seen as a bunch of wild kids doing their own thing in a basement or garage

Hand on heart, that reputation is by and large justified. The vast majority of FOSS is crap. Just look at what's on offer in the Jolla store or, worse still, in Openrepos.

Originally Posted by juiceme

It used to be that people valued their private data, whatever happened to that sentiment?

A lot of factors. Convenience is the most obvious one. If you wanted to show off your holiday snaps to your aunt say 20 years ago, you had to bring along a photo album when you came for a visit. Now you just send her a link to a a cloud storage of some kind.

Not everyone has the skill or the means to run their own cloud storage, just like not everyone has the skill or means to bake their own bread. So we delegate. There is nothing wrong with that.

But there is a small difference, and therein lies another factor. Delegating your bread making means you go to the shop and buy bread made by someone else. The key word here is "buy". You pay for it. With money. Money is tangible. You generally do not pay for the data storage, at least not in money. The fact that you pay in some other way is often overlooked.

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	endsormeans	2017-09-12 , 07:06
	Posts: 3,141 \| Thanked: 8,161 times \| Joined on Feb 2013 @ From my Gabriola Island hermitage, near the Edge of the World	#13

Baking your own bread is FAR easier...
I don't buy a single baked good.
I bake my own breads ...
far easier and more netting a physical result than cloud storage skills

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	wicket	2017-09-12 , 19:54
	Posts: 634 \| Thanked: 3,266 times \| Joined on May 2010 @ Colombia	#14

Originally Posted by pichlo

Hand on heart, that reputation is by and large justified. The vast majority of FOSS is crap. Just look at what's on offer in the Jolla store or, worse still, in Openrepos.

I wouldn't say that Jolla apps are a good representation FOSS, in fact those that depend on Jolla's proprietary Silica components probably can't even be considered to be FOSS. If it were Debian, those apps wouldn't be allowed in free and would have be placed in contrib or nonfree repositories which aren't considered to be part of the Debian distribution.

I don't really understand your relation between FOSS and the quality of software. In my experience, it's the other way. Have you seen Google Play? The vast majority of apps there are closed/proprietary, many of which are made by non-developers, students, etc. with little experience who want to jump on the "app" bandwagon and the quality is atrocious in most cases. Other more experienced Android developers will be more than happy make their apps freemium or have them include adverts. By contrast, this never happens in FOSS, and if ever it did, someone would just rebuild it without the crap. In general, FOSS developers, those who decide to share their code, tend to have more experience and have reason to give a sh¡t about the quality of the code they will be publishing for the world to see.

As for reputation, I'd argue that FOSS doesn't have a reputation at all amongst the general public. Most people don't know what FOSS is, and those that do know what it is, generally don't have a strong opinion about it.

Originally Posted by endsormeans

Baking your own bread is FAR easier...
I don't buy a single baked good.
I bake my own breads ...
far easier and more netting a physical result than cloud storage skills

I'd expect nothing less of Powdered Toast Man. As for the rest of us mere mortals, well most of us are more like that iiiiiidiot Stimpy. We don't bake our own bread, we buy it. You wouldn't want to taste our bread.

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	endsormeans	2017-09-13 , 04:00
	Posts: 3,141 \| Thanked: 8,161 times \| Joined on Feb 2013 @ From my Gabriola Island hermitage, near the Edge of the World	#15

ach....
Stimpy is a genius!
who else could survive ....Space MADNESS!!!!
I know what you want wicket...
You covet my ice cream bar!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YMUXGqWpRc

hahaha

Last edited by endsormeans; 2017-09-13 at 04:12.

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	pycage	2017-09-13 , 04:55
	Posts: 3,404 \| Thanked: 4,474 times \| Joined on Oct 2005 @ Germany	#16

I bake my bread (yummy) and I bake my cloud (https://github.com/pycage/pilvini).

Both have huge advantages.

Google Drive / Dropbox / ownCloud was yesterday.

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	pichlo	2017-09-13 , 07:10
	Posts: 6,447 \| Thanked: 20,981 times \| Joined on Sep 2012 @ UK	#17

Originally Posted by wicket

I wouldn't say that Jolla apps are a good representation FOSS,

which is a good indication of the validity of my assessment

Jolla's own apps are one of the very few good ones available in the Jolla store.

I don't really understand your relation between FOSS and the quality of software. In my experience, it's the other way. Have you seen Google Play? The vast majority of apps there are closed/proprietary, many of which are made by non-developers, students, etc. with little experience who want to jump on the "app" bandwagon and the quality is atrocious in most cases.

Yes, and the same applies to the vast majority of apps in the Jolla store or Openrepos.

I am not discussing the relative merits of FOSS versus non-FOSS. I was merely commenting on this:

Originally Posted by gerbick

... FOSS is seen as a bunch of wild kids doing their own thing in a basement ...

to which my response was,

Originally Posted by pichlo

Hand on heart, that reputation is by and large justified. The vast majority of FOSS is crap.

I stand behind that statement.

Originally Posted by wicket

As for reputation, I'd argue that FOSS doesn't have a reputation at all amongst the general public. Most people don't know what FOSS is, and those that do know what it is, generally don't have a strong opinion about it.

Among general public, you are probably right. I had my own share of problems stemming from someone's misunderstanding of FOSS. I had my job seeker's allowance suspended when I was registered at the Job Centre because I was contributing to FOSS and they considered it a breach of their rules.

Among the semi-informed, though, FOSS does have a reputation and it is not very good. My wife just told me how she finally got her boss to approve the purchase of some "corporation grade" video editing software that she wanted to make public presentations with. When I asked her whether she had tried Avidemux or some other free alternative, she just gave me that sort of look you may get if you asked someone who wanted to go from London to Manchester whether they had considered walking.

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juiceme	2017-09-13 , 07:48
Community Council \| Posts: 4,920 \| Thanked: 12,867 times \| Joined on May 2012 @ Southerrn Finland	#18

Originally Posted by pichlo

to which my response was,
Originally Posted by pichlo
Hand on heart, that reputation is by and large justified. The vast majority of FOSS is crap.

I stand behind that statement.

Here we differ in opinion; I suppose it is because of what tools one uses and needs.

In my opinion there hardly is any crap in FOSS utilities, instead there is elegance, scalability, stablilty and rock-solid design principles.
(the old *nix adage, do one thing and do it well; to achieve complex results chain simple tools together...)

Even the more complex tools like compilers and runtime environments are also very rigorously tested and debugged, I would hardly call that "crap" !

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	pichlo	2017-09-13 , 08:10
	Posts: 6,447 \| Thanked: 20,981 times \| Joined on Sep 2012 @ UK	#19

Originally Posted by juiceme

In my opinion there hardly is any crap in FOSS utilities, instead there is elegance, scalability, stablilty and rock-solid design principles.
(the old *nix adage, do one thing and do it well; to achieve complex results chain simple tools together...)

Even the more complex tools like compilers and runtime environments are also very rigorously tested and debugged, I would hardly call that "crap" !

You have just listed the small minority of FOSS products that are good. I myself have mentioned another one - Avidemux - even though it tends to have stability issues.

You have conveniently forgotten to list the FOSS equivalents of fart apps, never ending forks of forks or various hello world applications. The fact that you and I do not use them does not make them not exist and form the 95% or more of the FOSS offerings.

An important note:
No disrespect was intended to authors of any of my listed examples. Not all of them deserve the derogatory word that I used. I even use one of them, I am not going to tell you which one. But they are all a good illustration of why FOSS does not have a good reputation. None of them are actually the masterpieces of creation that some die-hard FOSS advocates seem to believe that FOSS is.

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juiceme	2017-09-13 , 11:00
Community Council \| Posts: 4,920 \| Thanked: 12,867 times \| Joined on May 2012 @ Southerrn Finland	#20

Originally Posted by pichlo

You have conveniently forgotten to list the FOSS equivalents of fart apps, never ending forks of forks or various hello world applications.

You have conveniently forgotten to list how much unusable/me-too/buggy/harmful/hostile software exists in the paid-app stores.
Now when I think about it, seems that FOSS fartapps are tiny and relatively harmless subset of all that.

Originally Posted by pichlo

The fact that you and I do not use them does not make them not exist and form the 95% or more of the FOSS offerings.

I'd rather think it is the other way around; there's lot less software in OpenRepos (or whatever equivalents exist) than for example in Debian main!

Originally Posted by pichlo

None of them are actually the masterpieces of creation that some die-hard FOSS advocates seem to believe that FOSS is.

Merit of any software is difficult to judge and can be appraised many ways; I myself value functioning as specified, being usable for the intended purpose and having as little bugs as possible.

Whether the piece of SW is FOSS or closed source does not affect whether it is "a masterpiece of creation" however it might have an effect on whether it can be better; You just cannot argue that it is easier to maintain closed source software.