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2018-01-25
, 15:09
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Posts: 2,222 |
Thanked: 12,651 times |
Joined on Mar 2010
@ SOL 3
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#3052
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Originally Posted by biketool
Neo900 did take up the challenge. We evaluated that concept and found we can't include a pager receiver since there are simply too many different standards in different areas of this globe. We however have hackerbus that totally allows plugging in such receiver as a user hw extension. We informed RMS about that option since he originally suggested that concept to us. Alas he doesn't like the fact that our modem has a documented method to update the firmware since that defeats the RYF approach of pretending ignorance of any software/firmware in peripherals. Note that this is not at all a technical objection but merely an arbitrary semantic one - if we could get an identical modem with documentation that simply doesn't list the command for firmware update, we would comply with FSF's RYF and RMS' desires in that regard.
Naw, I just wanted to take a shot at using him as my human megaphone for inclusion of POCSAG paging in proposed FOSS phones. Sadly despite him being the famous no-phone guy nobody has taken up that challenge.
We just happen to share a desire for hardware and software which works for us not some corporation or some state's spy agency.
[/@biketool]
@to_whom_it_may_concern
instead of introspectively / almost autisitcally focusing on how poor the chief technical officer performs with frequent website update since our all-time very best guy dos1 doesn't have the energy to take care about that anymore, you could spread the word that Neo900 actually *is* RMS' dream phone he would consider using (if it wasn't for us providing TOO MUCH documentation on modem). While this might be irrelevant to you guys since you don't consider RMS a relevant reference, it would still help generate a lot of preorders and support from the zillions of users out there who actually DO care what FSF recommends and RMS likes.
/j
Last edited by joerg_rw; 2018-01-25 at 15:40. Reason: @to_whom_it_may_concern
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2018-01-25
, 19:36
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Posts: 1,424 |
Thanked: 2,622 times |
Joined on Jan 2011
@ Touring
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#3053
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Joerg, Sorry didn't mean that to come out $#!tty towards you, I have been bugging him to use his louder voice for years for a pager-smartphone, I turned RMS onto the idea. I am also disappointed in his 'no solder trace' = unupdatable so unhackable black box BS.
Nobody took up the project really meant that nobody ELSE took up the project, but like the rest of the believers I also dont have a Neo900 in my hands though if it were out and I had the cash I would carry that instead of a N900 in my pocket with a hackerbus pager module.
Nobody took up the project really meant that nobody ELSE took up the project, but like the rest of the believers I also dont have a Neo900 in my hands though if it were out and I had the cash I would carry that instead of a N900 in my pocket with a hackerbus pager module.
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2018-01-26
, 10:46
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Posts: 6,447 |
Thanked: 20,981 times |
Joined on Sep 2012
@ UK
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#3054
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Originally Posted by biketool
Neither did I, though it may have come across that way.
Joerg, Sorry didn't mean that to come out $#!tty towards you
I'm just sad, that's all.
__________________
Русский военный корабль, иди нахуй!
Русский военный корабль, иди нахуй!
| The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to pichlo For This Useful Post: | ||
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2018-01-26
, 21:49
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Posts: 4,118 |
Thanked: 8,901 times |
Joined on Aug 2010
@ Ruhrgebiet, Germany
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#3055
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no blame at all
just +1
just +1
Originally Posted by pichlo
...
I'm just sad, that's all.
__________________
SIM-Switcher, automated SIM switching with a Double (Dual) SIM adapter
--
Thank you all for voting me into the Community Council 2014-2016!
Please consider your membership / supporting Maemo e.V. and help to spread this by following/copying this link to your TMO signature:
[MC eV] Maemo Community eV membership application, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94257
editsignature, http://talk.maemo.org/profile.php?do=editsignature
SIM-Switcher, automated SIM switching with a Double (Dual) SIM adapter
--
Thank you all for voting me into the Community Council 2014-2016!
Please consider your membership / supporting Maemo e.V. and help to spread this by following/copying this link to your TMO signature:
[MC eV] Maemo Community eV membership application, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94257
editsignature, http://talk.maemo.org/profile.php?do=editsignature
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2018-01-26
, 23:00
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Posts: 2,222 |
Thanked: 12,651 times |
Joined on Mar 2010
@ SOL 3
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#3056
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still no answer or news from metacollin. I'm short of better ideas than just waiting for him to return, as finding a new layouter isn't really an option for feasibility, timing and financial reasons.
I really hope he is well and just needed a recovery time which he was smarter than me and actually took it.
I really hope he is well and just needed a recovery time which he was smarter than me and actually took it.
| The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to joerg_rw For This Useful Post: | ||
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2018-01-27
, 05:17
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Posts: 1,994 |
Thanked: 3,342 times |
Joined on Jun 2010
@ N900: Battery low. N950: torx 4 re-used once and fine; SIM port torn apart
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#3057
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Originally Posted by Ken-Young
Raspberry Pi isn't exactly a pocketable phone with a keyboard. Sure, mods are available, like #ZeroPhone (which is 2G-only), but 3G-capable Linux with hardware keyboard, resistive touchscreen, and fitting into a pocket? And that's not mentioning other "niche" features, such as infrared transceiver and stylus detection (and RGB backlight for keyboard).
Drastically reduced, i suspect. Since the specs are so poor now compared to modern hardware, and the price is high, only people who value privacy above all else in a phone will be interested. Most of the people who want to tinker with hardware will have moved to Pis. The fact that they talk about trying to get another round of funding before shipping the devices suggests detachment from reality has set in.
Glad to hear the git issues didn't persist, and new commits have publishing delayed till shipping date.
Originally Posted by joerg_rw
Hope that Metacollin is well and will return soon. jOERG, get better please, you have STEP2 to make after Neo900 is released!
still no answer or news from metacollin. I'm short of better ideas than just waiting for him to return, as finding a new layouter isn't really an option for feasibility, timing and financial reasons.
I really hope he is well and just needed a recovery time which he was smarter than me and actually took it.
Originally Posted by gerbick
I wish I knew how to help. I have at least 6 pre-orders for Neo900 complete device, since two or three years ago; not in a situation to pre-order hundreds of devices ;-) . No experience with KiCad, at all.
So how can we help?
Spread the word? If you have IT people who regularly use Linux, and complain about difficulties with ssh-ing into a remote machine from an Android phone... Recommend N(eo)900 as "the phone which runs Linux"; maybe mention that besides bugfixes and improvements in CSSU, it has a major new release in the works.
Originally Posted by biketool
At least, I don't have/use an Android phone, yet ;-) Or BlackBerry, or Microsoft, for that matter. On that topic, it would be nice to make sure that apkenv actually works, on Maemo, Mer, Sailfish platforms. Would make it much less likely that nerds switch to Android under peer pressure. Also, does Facebook on Maemo 5 work atm? Skype?
Joerg, GDC, Neo900 team, TMO,
I do not fault you and the Neo900 team when I make statements of resignation to our fate.
I would contribute to the Neo900 and did buy a GTA02 because I was part of that bleeding edge who wanted truly free hardware, I had more free cash then.
There seems to simply not be enough of us who care out there to make a real difference.
If we want gnu Linux or another FOSS and radically free hardware device we need to sell more people on the concept before we can get our stuff, or we need to find a very wealthy patron who will decide for us what we will get with a subsidy.
As long as we see real nerds falling into the arms of the walled garden and buying hardware there we wont get the devices that we and probably they truly want.
Originally Posted by pichlo
While I do admire Chen's work on Moto keyboard, I didn't buy one. Because Motorola phones have capacitive touchscreens, as far as I know; also, I am not that interested in "yet another Android phone".
That is one way of seeing it. Another way is that I am a customer buying a product. And I expect the team building the product to approach it as a business. Not as an ideological mission.
Running a business includes setting yourself achievable goals and sticking to them. A good example is Chen and his Moto keyboard. He set himself an achievable goal, said exactly what he would deliver and resisted interference. And there you go - a result!
I believed and still believe that "an N900 with a faster CPU and more RAM", as per the poll question at the top of this page, was an achievable goal. It was all the "better infrared", "turn-off-able modem" and "rewrite the entire OS" mission creep that eventually killed the project.
Sure, by all means, build that as the next project. You cannot jump a mountain in one big leap. You climb it step by step.
All the "better infrared", "turn-off-able modem" and similar hardware features are the reasons why Neo900 is a groundbreaking project, admired for its approach to privacy and malware amidst other advantages. Just look at the quote:
Originally Posted by sulu
"rewrite the entire OS" project by Fremantle Porting Task Force didn't slow down Neo900 progress, and is in fact reason why N900 will be rejuvenated, with newer Linux kernel and many reverse-engineered blobs. It will greatly delay Maemo's fall into obscurity, by making it more compatible with modern software, and less likely to fall prey to "WONT FIX".
While I agree with you on the point of businesses and achievable goals in general, I do not agree with you on the Neo900-specific "mission creep".
I don't care about the "better infrared" or the "rewrite the entire OS", but to me the "turn-off-able modem", respectively the underlying attitude of "privacy above all else", has always been "the product".
I would have even signed up for the Neo900 if the replacement board hadn't promised any perfomance increase at all, as long as it would have been a phone being able to run Debian.
What I would not have signed up for is a 10x faster device with the same design defect like the N900 of having a "semi-open" OS that would grind to a slow death because proprietary bits keep it from having security issues fixed. If I wanted that, then I would have already bought half a dozen android phones.
Next project, STEP2, may become the "modern specifications" Linux phone which will not have limitations such as usage of OMAP3. I do hope that it happens, just like I hope that GTA04 project is moving forward.
Originally Posted by sulu
I may disagree on that, just a little: while it is sort of like a "technological artifact", I do expect to receive it, in a year or two (or three) [don't let that make you pessimistic about future of the project]. The money I invested in it doesn't hurt me [it provides a sense of hope for better future]. And in the case that it will be shipped, I will find it useful - just like tiny, low-specification Pebble Time smartwatch has its usefulness - just not for crunching numbers [or loading heavy webpages in their unfiltered, ad-riddled ugliness].
As it stands, the Neo900 currently is sort of like a "technological artifact" to me. I don't actually count on ever receiving one anymore.
I'm mainly sticking to it now, because the money I invested in it doesn't hurt me, and in the unlikely case that one day it will be shipped I will have something that might not actually be useful, but it will be a rare example of the embodyment of an idea I support.
I think of it as some piece of art. You don't buy a Picasso because it's useful.
Any piece of technology should be a piece of art.
Originally Posted by joerg_rw
Should look at the git repository some time. Though I have no experience with uBlog in particular or web developing in general...
the uBlog is broken and actually always been, sorry I probably simply should nuke it from the site
How comes despite we offer all the sourcecode of the website on git (http://neo900.org/git/www/log/) and told several times we are no web developers unlike most "programmers" out there claim to be, we rarely ever seen a single community contribution?
A BIG THANK YOU to arch_tk and sn0wmonster who did and do help and contribute, as well as to the few others that did and I missed to mention them here.
Originally Posted by joerg_rw
Good point. Wish FSF at least mentioned Neo900 in one of their newsletters aka Bulletin.
Neo900 did take up the challenge. We evaluated that concept and found we can't include a pager receiver since there are simply too many different standards in different areas of this globe. We however have hackerbus that totally allows plugging in such receiver as a user hw extension. We informed RMS about that option since he originally suggested that concept to us. Alas he doesn't like the fact that our modem has a documented method to update the firmware since that defeats the RYF approach of pretending ignorance of any software/firmware in peripherals. Note that this is not at all a technical objection but merely an arbitrary semantic one - if we could get an identical modem with documentation that simply doesn't list the command for firmware update, we would comply with FSF's RYF and RMS' desires in that regard.
Thank you. Best wishes.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Per aspera ad astra...
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2018-01-27
, 09:37
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Posts: 671 |
Thanked: 1,630 times |
Joined on Aug 2010
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#3058
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What,
in a bullet list format,
remains to be done ?
If the objective (shipping devices)
can be summarized in some stepwise fashion
there are people who may be able to help.
It could be a 'progress poster' thing.
A 'single phrase' serving suggestion might be:
* PCB Layout finalized +> qc tests
* PCBs etched +> qc steps
* Parts attached +> tp testing
* Unit initialization +> basic bios/boot test
* ?
Obviously this is a crude planning hack,
but even if you only get a PC board out there
it will be unequaled and unrivaled on day one
HTH, cheers
in a bullet list format,
remains to be done ?
If the objective (shipping devices)
can be summarized in some stepwise fashion
there are people who may be able to help.
It could be a 'progress poster' thing.
A 'single phrase' serving suggestion might be:
* PCB Layout finalized +> qc tests
* PCBs etched +> qc steps
* Parts attached +> tp testing
* Unit initialization +> basic bios/boot test
* ?
Obviously this is a crude planning hack,
but even if you only get a PC board out there
it will be unequaled and unrivaled on day one
HTH, cheers
Originally Posted by Wikiwide
Raspberry Pi isn't exactly a pocketable phone with a keyboard. Sure, mods are available, like #ZeroPhone (which is 2G-only), but 3G-capable Linux with hardware keyboard, resistive touchscreen, and fitting into a pocket? And that's not mentioning other "niche" features, such as infrared transceiver and stylus detection (and RGB backlight for keyboard)....
...Good point. Wish FSF at least mentioned Neo900 in one of their newsletters aka Bulletin.
Thank you. Best wishes.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Per aspera ad astra...
__________________
Three n900s: One for stable working platform,
One fordevelopment testing Chopping Onions
One forsaltwater immersion power testing resurrected ! parts scavenging
My Mods for Wonko's Advanced Clock Plugin:
ISO8601 clock mod and Momental_IST clock mod
Printing your Email with the N900
Three n900s: One for stable working platform,
One for
One for
My Mods for Wonko's Advanced Clock Plugin:
ISO8601 clock mod and Momental_IST clock mod
Printing your Email with the N900
| The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to theonelaw For This Useful Post: | ||
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2018-01-27
, 12:05
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Posts: 943 |
Thanked: 3,228 times |
Joined on Jun 2010
@ Zagreb
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#3059
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Originally Posted by Wikiwide
the thing is that 3G is on it's way out. They need spectrum.... And some will switch to VoLTE, some will keep 2G for calls for various reasons but 3G is dead or will be very soon.
Raspberry Pi isn't exactly a pocketable phone with a keyboard. Sure, mods are available, like #ZeroPhone (which is 2G-only), but 3G-capable Linux with hardware keyboard, resistive touchscreen, and fitting into a pocket? And that's not mentioning other "niche" features, such as infrared transceiver and stylus detection (and RGB backlight for keyboard).
| The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to kinggo For This Useful Post: | ||
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2018-01-27
, 12:17
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Posts: 3,141 |
Thanked: 8,161 times |
Joined on Feb 2013
@ From my Gabriola Island hermitage, near the Edge of the World
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#3060
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"Obviously this is a crude planning hack,
but even if you only get a PC board out there
it will be unequaled and unrivaled on day one"
Totally agree.
Of course there would be a few upset, grumbling or complaining that what was promised was not delivered.
But blunt cold real world pressure tends to steer a creation...of any kind.
It is what we make of it....that is the big thing.
In a perfect vacuum with perfect conditions perfectly quantifiable ...
Everything always works out.
It is my perspective...my way of seeing things..
I have countless examples of work I have done that should have turned out exactly as conceived, planned and designed...yet the natural imperfections of say..a specific piece of wood or antler..or metal..screws it up for me...or the weather..or countless other natural factors I couldn't anticipate..
The trick is to make the flaw look like it not only was meant to be, but planned as well, so the flaw is therefore not a flaw.
I know what I said is a different scenario in many ways to what is going on with the neo project ...
But the rough premise is sound.
-Yes what was promised is what was promised, but for the sake of being able to eventually get said promises fulfilled it may be expedient to bend a little ...flex a little...to be able to get those stated promises fulfilled.
-If sourcing parts, getting enough preorders, getting enough manpower of specific skill sets, etc ..
-If the World and all the uncertainty and chance conspire against,
then I suggest a more tactical approach..
(and it isn't about releasing an unfinished or unfulfilled promise..)
but rather smoothly bend with the situations and if possible (I don't know how feasible what Theonelaw or I roughly suggest...)
do a pared down, scaled back..."pre-release release" so-to-speak...
as theonelaw mentioned..it will indeed be unequaled and unrivaled on day one...
But as well..I bet ...that then ...not only will more preorders come in for a neo...but you will be flooded with them...and also more individuals offering their particular needed skill sets..
Theonelaw is correct more ways than he said.
doing a pre-release release would be doubtless be not only more pragmatic at this time...but also more advantageous and tactically calculating to achieve the desired end result...
More help and preorders than you could shake a stick at...
but even if you only get a PC board out there
it will be unequaled and unrivaled on day one"
Totally agree.
Of course there would be a few upset, grumbling or complaining that what was promised was not delivered.
But blunt cold real world pressure tends to steer a creation...of any kind.
It is what we make of it....that is the big thing.
In a perfect vacuum with perfect conditions perfectly quantifiable ...
Everything always works out.
It is my perspective...my way of seeing things..
I have countless examples of work I have done that should have turned out exactly as conceived, planned and designed...yet the natural imperfections of say..a specific piece of wood or antler..or metal..screws it up for me...or the weather..or countless other natural factors I couldn't anticipate..
The trick is to make the flaw look like it not only was meant to be, but planned as well, so the flaw is therefore not a flaw.
I know what I said is a different scenario in many ways to what is going on with the neo project ...
But the rough premise is sound.
-Yes what was promised is what was promised, but for the sake of being able to eventually get said promises fulfilled it may be expedient to bend a little ...flex a little...to be able to get those stated promises fulfilled.
-If sourcing parts, getting enough preorders, getting enough manpower of specific skill sets, etc ..
-If the World and all the uncertainty and chance conspire against,
then I suggest a more tactical approach..
(and it isn't about releasing an unfinished or unfulfilled promise..)
but rather smoothly bend with the situations and if possible (I don't know how feasible what Theonelaw or I roughly suggest...)
do a pared down, scaled back..."pre-release release" so-to-speak...
as theonelaw mentioned..it will indeed be unequaled and unrivaled on day one...
But as well..I bet ...that then ...not only will more preorders come in for a neo...but you will be flooded with them...and also more individuals offering their particular needed skill sets..
Theonelaw is correct more ways than he said.
doing a pre-release release would be doubtless be not only more pragmatic at this time...but also more advantageous and tactically calculating to achieve the desired end result...
More help and preorders than you could shake a stick at...
__________________
Lurker since 2007, Member since 2013, Certifiable since 1972
Owner of :
1-n770 (in retirement), 3-n800's / 3-n810's (still in daily use), 5-n900's ((3 are flawless, 1 loose usb ( parts), 1 has no telephony (parts))
3-nexus 5's : 1 w/ Floko Pie 9.1 (running beautifully) waiting for Stable Droid 10 rom, 1 w/ ̶Ubuntu Touch, 1 with Maru OS (intend maemo leste when ready)
1/2 - neo900 pre- "purchased" in 2013. N̶o̶w̶ ̶A̶w̶a̶i̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶r̶e̶f̶u̶n̶d̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶c̶e̶s̶s̶ ̶l̶a̶s̶t̶ ̶f̶e̶w̶ ̶y̶e̶a̶r̶s̶ - neo900 start up declared officially dead -
Lost invested funds.
PIMP MY N8X0 (Idiot's Guide and a video walkthrough)http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94294
THE LOST GRONMAYER CATALOGShttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...ight=gronmayer
N8X0 VIDEO ENCODING THE EASY WAYhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...ght=mediacoder
242gb ON N800http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90634
THE PAIN-FREE MAEMO DEVELOPMENT LIVE DISTRO-ISO FOR THE NOOB TO THE PROhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=95567
AFFORDABLE MASS PRODUCTION FOR MAEMO PARTShttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=93325
Meateo balloons now available @ Dave999's Meateo Emporium
Lurker since 2007, Member since 2013, Certifiable since 1972
Owner of :
1-n770 (in retirement), 3-n800's / 3-n810's (still in daily use), 5-n900's ((3 are flawless, 1 loose usb ( parts), 1 has no telephony (parts))
3-nexus 5's : 1 w/ Floko Pie 9.1 (running beautifully) waiting for Stable Droid 10 rom, 1 w/ ̶Ubuntu Touch, 1 with Maru OS (intend maemo leste when ready)
1/2 - neo900 pre- "purchased" in 2013. N̶o̶w̶ ̶A̶w̶a̶i̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶r̶e̶f̶u̶n̶d̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶c̶e̶s̶s̶ ̶l̶a̶s̶t̶ ̶f̶e̶w̶ ̶y̶e̶a̶r̶s̶ - neo900 start up declared officially dead -
Lost invested funds.
PIMP MY N8X0 (Idiot's Guide and a video walkthrough)http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94294
THE LOST GRONMAYER CATALOGShttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...ight=gronmayer
N8X0 VIDEO ENCODING THE EASY WAYhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...ght=mediacoder
242gb ON N800http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90634
THE PAIN-FREE MAEMO DEVELOPMENT LIVE DISTRO-ISO FOR THE NOOB TO THE PROhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=95567
AFFORDABLE MASS PRODUCTION FOR MAEMO PARTShttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=93325
Meateo balloons now available @ Dave999's Meateo Emporium
How comes despite we offer all the sourcecode of the website on git (http://neo900.org/git/www/log/) and told several times we are no web developers unlike most "programmers" out there claim to be, we rarely ever seen a single community contribution?
A BIG THANK YOU to arch_tk and sn0wmonster who did and do help and contribute, as well as to the few others that did and I missed to mention them here.
Last edited by joerg_rw; 2018-01-25 at 14:36.