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Feathers McGraw's Avatar
Feathers McGraw is offline Feathers McGraw
2018-04-16 , 22:36
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#61
Originally Posted by pichlo View Post
Go back where?

To the country of my origin? In an instant.
Please stay! We need more critical thinkers.
 

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juiceme is offline juiceme
2018-04-17 , 11:01
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#62
Originally Posted by tortoisedoc View Post
But to recognize necessity, you need to make choices, right?
I mean; freedom is smaller than necessity, in that it needs to be born from "within", whereas necessity is something that comes from outside. Freedom is born inside the necessity.
Freedom of choice does not exist, it is an illusion at best.
Every human being is product of society and bound by convention, subject to limited choices.
 

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pichlo is offline pichlo
2018-04-17 , 11:56
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#63
Originally Posted by juiceme View Post
Freedom of choice does not exist, it is an illusion at best.
Every human being is product of society and bound by convention, subject to limited choices.
That's how I understand the recognised necessity quote. As a recognition of the limits and the understanding that freedom does not mean, "you can do whatever you damn please", only "whatever you please within certain bounds". Once you accept that, you may be free even if you cannot do literally everything. Freedom is a subjective concept.
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tortoisedoc is offline tortoisedoc
2018-04-17 , 17:03
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#64
Originally Posted by pichlo View Post
That's how I understand the recognised necessity quote. As a recognition of the limits and the understanding that freedom does not mean, "you can do whatever you damn please", only "whatever you please within certain bounds". Once you accept that, you may be free even if you cannot do literally everything. Freedom is a subjective concept.
You won't be able to, and won't have fully accepted the fact, unless you freely choose to do so. If you undersand the world as is, it's because you choose to do so.
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Last edited by tortoisedoc; 2018-04-17 at 17:09.
 

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2018-04-17 , 18:11
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#65
Well, the choice would suggest it's an understanding of the world as it is to you.
 

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tortoisedoc is offline tortoisedoc
2018-04-17 , 21:16
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#66
Originally Posted by nthn View Post
Well, the choice would suggest it's an understanding of the world as it is to you.
But Reality (with capital R) as such is the same for all.
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2018-04-17 , 22:22
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#67
Originally Posted by tortoisedoc View Post
But Reality (with capital R) as such is the same for all.
I hate to disappoint you, but no, it isn't. Even without relativistic effects, reality depends on the frame of reference. Everyone's reality is different. Only religion claims there is One True Reality with a capital R.

EDIT
But when you think about it, such Reality is just yet another reality (small r) observed from yet another, subjective, frame of reference.
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Last edited by pichlo; 2018-04-17 at 22:35.
 

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tortoisedoc is offline tortoisedoc
2018-04-18 , 04:22
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#68
Originally Posted by pichlo View Post
I hate to disappoint you, but no, it isn't. Even without relativistic effects, reality depends on the frame of reference. Everyone's reality is different. Only religion claims there is One True Reality with a capital R.

EDIT
But when you think about it, such Reality is just yet another reality (small r) observed from yet another, subjective, frame of reference.
Yes reality can be misleading; and in that its the same for everyone (again);
but most importantly (and Einstein comes into play again) causality is the same for everyone. An apple cutted from a tree will still stay cutted from it no matter which frame of reference you look at it from. Also entropy increasing always is covariant w/r to any frame of reference
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2018-04-18 , 05:31
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#69
From the point of view of the worm living inside that apple, it looks more like the tree has been cut from the apple (a bit like the famous, though, sadly, probably apocryphal, 1950's British newspaper headline, "Fog in the Channel - continent cut off!").

I am reminded of that old joke about the guy who painted the sides of his car with different colours. When his puzzled friends asked him why, he replied it was to confuse eye witnesses in case of a collision. You may say the "objective reality" is that the car is painted with different colours. I say that "reality" is just as subjective as any other and requires a frame of reference inaccessible to the eye witnesses on the ground.
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Dousan is offline Dousan
2018-04-18 , 05:43
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#70
There’s only one true reality that we all see our own reality from. Our world’s building stone is relativity that are minifestet by our freedom of choice. Our choosing on how we want to see the reality we live in is how the reality is reflected to us. The thinking, choices we make, actions we take, our upbringing and so forth is what makes the grounds for our choices which reflects the reality we perceive and live in.
Therefore you can always change YOUR reality as it’s relative, though you can never change Reality as it just is and never anything else.
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