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juiceme is offline juiceme
2018-05-07 , 06:47
Community Council | Posts: 4,920 | Thanked: 12,867 times | Joined on May 2012 @ Southerrn Finland
#71
It's fun to hear how different the things can be in other countries... I assume banks are a major source of NIH, being such a closed sector with huge legacy in their IM systems...

Originally Posted by nthn View Post
Huh, in Belgium we get card readers where you have to enter a couple of codes every time you want to log in to your account or do a transaction, the card reader then displays a code which you have to enter on the website. I've always assumed this was the same worldwide!

I'm aware most or all banks now have Android/iOS applications, but I have no idea how they work. At least I presume they don't require the card reader.
In Finland some banks also use the card-reader thingy to create the OTP number, altough most use the paper-slip mailed to the account holders.
Could be the electronic thingy is cheaper for them in the long run, compared to what it will cost over the years to mail a few letters to everybody couple of times a year.


Originally Posted by nieldk View Post
in Denmark we dont accept cheques.
Oh and we have this key called nemID - which is 2FA for almost any online activity in DK public services, banks. Its also used for identifying who you are (by verifying against registered PI in central database).
you get nemID by default on a paperslip, but can also purchase an eletronic token.
Some banks in Finland use also 2FA in addition to the paper-slip containing OTP numbers, at least one that I know will require 2FA with a SMS verification to your phone if you create a payment to recipient you have not sent moey before.
That's 4 authentication methods for one transaction; accountnumber+password+OTP+SMS


Originally Posted by tealc View Post
I think there has been a misunderstanding on how bankid is used in Sweden (and perhaps other nordic countries too). Yes, you can log in to your bank with bankid, but in most cases you can also log in to your bank with a key fob like device or similar. The problem is that the bankid identification has been adopted by many other online services in Sweden and there bankid is the only option.
* All services provided by the government
* Stock/bond exchanges
* Credit card providers (not banks)
* Insurance companies
* Retirement fund companies
* ...

You will be blocked from many important online services unless you have bankid and changing bank will not solve the problem since the other bank also provides the same bankid. We need an open standard for online identification.
In Finland this is similar but luckily not exactly the same!
We also need BankID for all those things, for example you cannot fill your tax-returns or register your car without it.
However it is enough to use the paper-slip OTP verification with all of the services that require authentication, you don't need any Android silliness to do it.


Originally Posted by claustn View Post
Aren't we a bit off topic? Now it turned to be a comparison between banks
Do you think that updating Alien Dalvik will improve the additional power consumption derived by using it? I hope it doesn't turn out to be the opposite, adding more features.
You are absolutely correct there; however this discussion is much more interesting to me!
 

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pichlo is offline pichlo
2018-05-07 , 08:02
Posts: 6,450 | Thanked: 20,983 times | Joined on Sep 2012 @ UK
#72
I totally agree. Off topic but definitely more interesting. At least we are talking about facts, not speculations
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jenix is offline jenix
2018-05-07 , 08:18
Posts: 74 | Thanked: 355 times | Joined on Aug 2017
#73
Just to complete the list of online banking systems before we go back on topic:
Here in Switzerland you need a token for the online banking of every bank. It's needed for the login and often for transactions. There are different options (a device that generates a OTP code with the card, an USB token, a device that generates the TAN from an image and of course different iOS / Android Apps) depending on your bank.
Luckily, there are still "non-mobile-device" options, but sadly the trend is pointing towards "mobile first" and with that iOS / Android lock-in.
BankID seems to be a good example which already discriminates against those without iOS / Android. While I'm a big fan of open implementations, I think it's very unlikely that this iOS / Android lock-in will stop any time soon (but that is a topic for another discussion).

So offering support for all those essential Apps without having to use a spying system is a huge feature from my point of view.

Regarding the battery consumption, it's really hard to tell. All you do in emulators is basically mapping the System Calls of the emulated system (Android) to their equivalents of the host system (SFOS). This should basically have no big impact, but it greatly depends on the guest system and if it requires specific services to run constantly in the background.
 

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pexi is offline pexi
2018-05-07 , 08:46
Posts: 133 | Thanked: 387 times | Joined on Jul 2011
#74
So after careful examination of all subjects around the topic we come to conclusion that we will have android version 7 for the sfos 3. Nice wrap up don't you think.
 

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r0kk3rz is offline r0kk3rz
2018-05-07 , 08:51
Posts: 440 | Thanked: 2,256 times | Joined on Jul 2014
#75
Originally Posted by jenix View Post
Regarding the battery consumption, it's really hard to tell. All you do in emulators is basically mapping the System Calls of the emulated system (Android) to their equivalents of the host system (SFOS). This should basically have no big impact, but it greatly depends on the guest system and if it requires specific services to run constantly in the background.
Alien-Dalvik isnt really an emulator as such, you don't have to translate anything and so performance should be more or less what it would be under normal android situation.
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Wolda is offline Wolda
2018-05-07 , 14:15
Posts: 52 | Thanked: 226 times | Joined on Feb 2011 @ CZ & US ex-(UK/France/Switzerland/Canada)
#76
Contributing to the offtopic, in Canada and US one can do online banking from any web browser quite easily [so-far], however, things like depositing a cheque is an iOS/Android-app exclusive feature. Of course we can discuss who does use cheques these days, well, 95% of the US universities still use it for travel reimbursements of their visitors, or, some of the math institutions send the salary to their fellows by cheques (making this direct-deposit: mission seems impossible ;( ). Of course, I can simply go to ATM and deposit it through it, but that doesn't apply to the US cheques... Yet another example from the money sector are services like Revolut

Also, @jenix might correct me since I left Switzerland 2 years ago - if I wanna buy a train ticket with SBB last-minute just before hopping on the train and as a non-Swiss, I am really running late and don't have time to use the machine, isn't an app my only choice? I know that for some routes I was able to get a PDF and then they just scan the code, but not for all (at least in 2016).

This brings me back to the on-topic discussion here: these are exactly examples where I would swim against the stream here and say loudly "god thanks jolla for AD / the android layer" . It is naive to expect any improvement with the situation on the IT market today(++).
 

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jenix is offline jenix
2018-05-07 , 15:58
Posts: 74 | Thanked: 355 times | Joined on Aug 2017
#77
Originally Posted by Wolda View Post
Also, @jenix might correct me since I left Switzerland 2 years ago - if I wanna buy a train ticket with SBB last-minute just before hopping on the train and as a non-Swiss, I am really running late and don't have time to use the machine, isn't an app my only choice? I know that for some routes I was able to get a PDF and then they just scan the code, but not for all (at least in 2016).
As far as I know, they changed that again due to heavy criticism. You can now contact the conductor as soon as possible (best before the train leaves the station) who then sells you a ticket (being Switzerland with a nice additional fee, of course). I can't say anything about the SBB (the swiss railway company) App as the SBB seems shady as f*ck to me regarding privacy, so I keep as far away from their Apps as possible.

This brings me back to the on-topic discussion here: these are exactly examples where I would swim against the stream here and say loudly "god thanks jolla for AD / the android layer" . It is naive to expect any improvement with the situation on the IT market today(++).
That's exactly my point. Being able to use Android Apps (which more and more gets exclusive features) without having to sacrifice your privacy to Google (or invest a lot of time into Custom ROMS and still having a bad feeling) is a very strong feature of SFOS.
 

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pichlo is offline pichlo
2018-05-07 , 19:14
Posts: 6,450 | Thanked: 20,983 times | Joined on Sep 2012 @ UK
#78
Well, I must say this thread has been very enlightening for me. You may call the talk about the banks off topic but for me it was very much on topic because it finally answered the mystery of why people like Android support so much. Indeed, if I were in such a predicament, I would almost certainly have joined their ranks too.
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jukk is offline jukk
2018-05-08 , 13:04
Posts: 81 | Thanked: 342 times | Joined on Jul 2012 @ Finland
#79
Originally Posted by juiceme View Post

In Finland this is similar but luckily not exactly the same!
We also need BankID for all those things, for example you cannot fill your tax-returns or register your car without it.
Note that in Finland we don't have the Swedish BankID. That is a totally different system that requires Android/iOS/Mac/Windows and doesn't even work on Linux PCs due to lack of software. In Finland we can still use bank identification using the paper system (like you said above) or the various systems that different banks have.

And in Finland you could also use the state issued electronic ID to login to state services like tax return etc. There is even linux software: https://eevertti.vrk.fi/en/linux-versions
 

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lantern is offline lantern
2018-06-01 , 15:12
Posts: 367 | Thanked: 1,442 times | Joined on Feb 2015
#80
android-tools-hadk
[core] Add git submodule for Android 5.1.1 release 38.
No rights managing, I suppose?

on the other hand
droidmedia
[bsp] Android 7.0 support.
 

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