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GenD is offline GenD
2006-07-03 , 21:35
Posts: 12 | Thanked: 1 time | Joined on Nov 2005
#11
Originally Posted by bradpitcher
Oh please, NOOO!! I love how small it is, I take it with me everywhere. If I wanted an "around the house" form factor I would get a pepperpad or a tablet pc. Besides, I think it already works well around the house and I view large websites on it with no problem. The ability to drag around websites with the stylus really compensates for the smaller screen size.
Hmm, I don't quite understand your thought process. I wasn't suggesting the elimination of the pocketable form factor, but rather an additional form factor that is a little larger ("one inch bigger" I said). I think a larger screen would make for a more pleasant reading experience, especially for the (demographicaly important) baby boomer generation with less than perfect eyes. I know several people I think would enjoy the 770 but I don't bother recommending it them because I know that would have a hard time with the small screen. I don't believe a web-tablet should require so much zooming and horizontal scrolling.

Why does wishing for a larger screen mean I should jump ship and switch to a different platform entirely when I've already invested time learning the tips and UI quirks of this platform? That is strange advice coming from a 770 advocate.

I would have thought proponents of the 770 would want the product to be successful, resulting in more software availability and a continuing line of hardware.
 
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Karel Jansens is offline Karel Jansens
2006-07-03 , 21:42
Posts: 3,220 | Thanked: 326 times | Joined on Oct 2005 @ "Almost there!" (Monte Christo, Count of)
#12
Originally Posted by Bowie
Easy.

1) GET RID OF GNOME/HILDON. Simply put, it's bloat, and doesn't deliver the bang-per-buck that a simple X11+WindowMaker or other GNUStep desktop delivers. Not only would our tablets be faster and more responsive, but we'd have oodles more memory available. Unfortunately, I don't think this is ever going to happen, primarrily because the people working on the 770 have never seen a Linux box that didn't have GNOME or KDE installed. *sigh*. I'm on the verge of doing this myself, just to see how big the difference is.
It would be nice to see a different Linux distro for the 770. It was done for the Zaurus platform and ended up being better and more popular than the default distro.

3) GIVE UP ON HANDWRITING RECOGNITION. Nobody uses it!
Well, I use it, so by definition it has to stay.

It just has to become better than that piece of garbage that is included.
 
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gnuite is offline gnuite
2006-07-03 , 22:08
Posts: 1,245 | Thanked: 421 times | Joined on Dec 2005
#13
Originally Posted by Bowie
Easy.

1) GET RID OF GNOME/HILDON. Simply put, it's bloat, and doesn't deliver the bang-per-buck that a simple X11+WindowMaker or other GNUStep desktop delivers. Not only would our tablets be faster and more responsive, but we'd have oodles more memory available. Unfortunately, I don't think this is ever going to happen, primarrily because the people working on the 770 have never seen a Linux box that didn't have GNOME or KDE installed. *sigh*. I'm on the verge of doing this myself, just to see how big the difference is.
X11+Windowmaker is not going to sell Nokia 770s to the general public. And kudos for insulting the linux experience of people that decided to build their operating system on top of linux. Maybe next time they'll choose Windows Mobile just to spite you (or to make you happy?).

Originally Posted by Bowie
2) MORE APPLICATIONS. Don't just release the tablet and expect a cult following! Maemo is a good start, but there should have been boatloads of programs already ported before the device even hit the shelves. It can't be that hard. The 2006 OS just came out, and the application package shelves are still bare. What the hell have you guys been up to in the past year?
The device does what it is intended and advertised to do. If that's not enough for you, don't buy it.

Originally Posted by Bowie
3) GIVE UP ON HANDWRITING RECOGNITION. Nobody uses it!
Hard to argue here, although there are at least a few people using it, and this is something that could actually be improved at the software level (i.e. without a hardware upgrade), so I don't think we need to give up on it just yet.

Originally Posted by Bowie
4) USE A LOW-POWER CPU WITH AN X86 INSTRUCTION SET. They exist! Solves problem #2 in one fell swoop, too, while making future applications that much easier to eventually see running on a 770 as well. I write apps for X11, and the only thing stopping me from writing apps for the 770 is the whole ridiculous gnome/hildon/maemo/arm mess that I neither have the time nor the patience to learn.
I don't see a problem with the arm processor, and using an x86 processor would most definitely not automatically solve "problem" #2, especially if you're also taking out the gnome infrastructure. What more would you be able to run? xeyes? Yee haw. (By the way, I'm pretty sure xeyes could be built for an arm processor.)

Originally Posted by Bowie
5) ENCOURAGE HACKING. Word of mouth = $$$.
I think they've done a pretty good job of this. I had never been a part of a serious open source project until I picked up my Nokia 770 and decided that I needed a better navigation system than GPSDrive (which is, by the way, a perfect counter-example to your "problem" #4). Oh, and an open-source gnome infrastructure greatly encourages hacking - taking out the gnome part would reduce the hackability for those of us already familiar with the GTK libraries.

Originally Posted by Bowie
6) INCLUDE USEFUL TOOLS. It's been a year, and there still isn't a useable rdesktop client out there, or a clock/calendar that makes any sense. VNC is a mess. Where's the standard slate of PDA tools? Yes, I know, I know, it's an "internet tablet", not a PDA. But guess what. It's a PDA.
Is this the same as "problem" #2? This non-problem is worthy of two separate "problem" enumerations?

Originally Posted by Bowie
7) MAKE IT FUN. How long would it have taken to get MAME or at least an Atari 2600 emulator ported to it? Hell, most PDA game shops are struggling to survive. A couple free 770's and $5000 cash would give any shop a real boost, and something cool for everyone to use.
Buy a PSP. The Nokia 770 is not a toy, although 3rd party development may someday allow it to perform some of the operations of one.
 
frenchie is offline frenchie
2006-07-03 , 22:23
Posts: 36 | Thanked: 1 time | Joined on Nov 2005 @ PA
#14
Hmm, well all I would like to see is a regular SD and/or CF slot.

The device is perfect as-is
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Does the location column count?
 
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bradpitcher is offline bradpitcher
2006-07-03 , 22:37
Posts: 84 | Thanked: 2 times | Joined on May 2006
#15
Originally Posted by GenD
I wasn't suggesting the elimination of the pocketable form factor, but rather an additional form factor that is a little larger ("one inch bigger" I said).
Gotcha. I didn't catch that before. Yeah, it does make sense to have an additional option. Sorry, I got a little defensive at the thought of losing my pocketable device.

I would have thought proponents of the 770 would want the product to be successful, resulting in more software availability and a continuing line of hardware.
Good point.
 
infinitespecter is offline infinitespecter
2006-07-04 , 10:57
Posts: 20 | Thanked: 1 time | Joined on Jun 2006
#16
Originally Posted by mallard
6. We already have 802.11g. The current bluetooth is fine.
Sorry, but the current Bluetooth is NOT fine. EVDO networks like Verizon's or Sprint's Power Vision are quite capable of oversaturating Bluetooth 1.1. In fact, they are significantly quicker then BT1.1 is. Given that Nokia makes connecting to a phone such a big deal, it only makes sense to use a connection that can take full advantage. I agree on just about everything else though.
 
diJenerate is offline diJenerate
2006-07-04 , 14:24
Posts: 7 | Thanked: 0 times | Joined on Jan 2006
#17
Originally Posted by infinitespecter
Sorry, but the current Bluetooth is NOT fine. EVDO networks like Verizon's or Sprint's Power Vision are quite capable of oversaturating Bluetooth 1.1. In fact, they are significantly quicker then BT1.1 is. Given that Nokia makes connecting to a phone such a big deal, it only makes sense to use a connection that can take full advantage. I agree on just about everything else though.

Additionally, A device like this could seriously benefit from A2DP support. I know the BlueZ team hasn't quite gotten that supported in linux but it's not that far away and as long as the hardware supports it, software will come.

None of our complaints here should be about software. The job of the developer is to make the code do what he or she and or the end user wants so developers can write or change anything over time. Our main issues here should be about hardware which can't be changed after the device is made.

So yes to the Bluetooth, I see the point on battery life with regard to GPS and USB host, but a Host port that can support at least one low powered device will be welcomed.

Additionally, SDHC support means we can use the larger capacity SD cards as they come out (4GB+). As for the screen, yes the general consensus is that screen size is an issue with regard readability for the spectacle wearers like myself, so 5-inches makes sense. Anything beyond that size is really asking much of the battery.

Nokia is a phone manufacturer, so they know how to make decent device battery decisions. I believe that a 1024x600 18-bit color screen with the same processor we have now and dedicated video acceleration would be more beneficial from a performance vs battery life point of view than a faster processor and no dedicated video. Look at the Dell X51v vs the newer Zaurus C-series on video performance. You can always zoom on a higher rez screen to see smaller font where as you can't stuff 1024 pixel wide pages or desktops (NX/VNC) on to an 800 pixel wide screen without the annoying scroll. On a 5-inch screen 1024x600 isn't too bad believe me.

Making the system work on x86 is not a good idea. Yes it is possible to get an x86 processor that is low powered like the AMD Geode... the problem is that x86 means that we will want to run the apps and utils that we have on our desktops and when we can't get desktop performance, we will bash the nokia's performance.

We should stick to .arm and leave x86 access to NX connections. This is a web tablet and the next should be a webtablet on steriods. .arm architecture is the way to go with a decent display so we can have independent multimedia usage without major compromise when not surfing. On the storage, RAM and Webcam front... 2GB is not that much for internal Flash today, 256MB RAM will allow better performance of multimedia apps on that higher res screen and the webcam is not that power hungry, but could be quite inconvenient if an add-on.[/rant]

diJenerate
 
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