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2008-07-23
, 18:11
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Posts: 96 |
Thanked: 1 time |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ Utah
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#42
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That's sort of it, innit? I, too, am tremendously frustrated by the common refrain of "well, it's open; learn to program and you can contribute." That's sort of like saying "If you don't like this album, learn to play all these instruments and write your own!"
If I need a word processor to do something, I'm not going to learn to program so I can contribute. I'm going to find one that does what I want (I'm a longtime beta tester for one of the Mac word processors). I haven't mucked about with linux in a long time (I'm a Mac user), but every time I install Ubuntu for a couple of days to play with it, I'm stunned at both how far it's come and how far it has to go.
If I need a word processor to do something, I'm not going to learn to program so I can contribute. I'm going to find one that does what I want (I'm a longtime beta tester for one of the Mac word processors). I haven't mucked about with linux in a long time (I'm a Mac user), but every time I install Ubuntu for a couple of days to play with it, I'm stunned at both how far it's come and how far it has to go.
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2008-07-23
, 18:16
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Posts: 3,428 |
Thanked: 2,856 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
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#43
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and everyone is different... I am always impressed with the advancements linux has come when I upgrade to a new one.. but I even have my computer illiterate wife running the latest Ubuntu 8 and it works perfect for her. Setting up printers and sharing them between two ubuntu boxes was never easier .. everything was GUI (finally) for linux. When my wife plugs in her USB camera it automatically knows it's a camera and launches some silly "camera" app made for images that allows her to make basic edits in the main screen, copy them to whatever directory she wants and then make more changes..
She loves it.
However - she hates gimp, so we have 1 windows VM in my house for her to run things like Paint Shop Pro, and to watch online movies from Netflix because those clowns don't support Mozilla/Linux.. (which is not linux's fault.. it's Netflix's.)
She loves it.
However - she hates gimp, so we have 1 windows VM in my house for her to run things like Paint Shop Pro, and to watch online movies from Netflix because those clowns don't support Mozilla/Linux.. (which is not linux's fault.. it's Netflix's.)
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2008-07-23
, 18:57
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Posts: 83 |
Thanked: 27 times |
Joined on Jun 2008
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#44
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I don't think there's anything wrong with complaining about Linux, but how you complain determines whether it falls on deaf ears. While I would much prefer people use Linux, it doesn't actually harm me if they choose another product, with one exception: When they're contributing to OSS.
"If I can't program, I can't contribute to OSS" is actually not true. Here are some examples:
- While rants are one of the least helpful methods of contributing, it does at least give a voice and explain a problem.
- Free software is usually poorly documented. Writing a howto, language pack, etc. for a piece of software or explaining how to use multiple programs together goes a long way.
- I can program, but I'm not familiar with any of the problems with HWR. Digging around to find out about the algorithms used, any partial libraries that implement those algorithms, or otherwise creating a central repository for information could generate a lot of interest in it.
- Try to find some basic info about GUI design. I'm sure many developers would love it if a user provided a window mockup (or even Glade interface file!) for their app, and wouldn't mind improving the UI if a user willing to invest the time described it.
I won't claim that it's worth the time, but one last thing: Don't assume you can't program. You've already started if you've run a command in a shell. As soon as you're piping output or writing loops, assigning variables, you've already come pretty close. Of course, this information is only useful if you really want to
There are lots of people who don't necessarily write software on this forum that contribute to the Wiki, etc. It doesn't hurt to try to take another step and see what else you can do if you want to take the time.
"If I can't program, I can't contribute to OSS" is actually not true. Here are some examples:
- While rants are one of the least helpful methods of contributing, it does at least give a voice and explain a problem.
- Free software is usually poorly documented. Writing a howto, language pack, etc. for a piece of software or explaining how to use multiple programs together goes a long way.
- I can program, but I'm not familiar with any of the problems with HWR. Digging around to find out about the algorithms used, any partial libraries that implement those algorithms, or otherwise creating a central repository for information could generate a lot of interest in it.
- Try to find some basic info about GUI design. I'm sure many developers would love it if a user provided a window mockup (or even Glade interface file!) for their app, and wouldn't mind improving the UI if a user willing to invest the time described it.
I won't claim that it's worth the time, but one last thing: Don't assume you can't program. You've already started if you've run a command in a shell. As soon as you're piping output or writing loops, assigning variables, you've already come pretty close. Of course, this information is only useful if you really want to
There are lots of people who don't necessarily write software on this forum that contribute to the Wiki, etc. It doesn't hurt to try to take another step and see what else you can do if you want to take the time.
| The Following User Says Thank You to andreww For This Useful Post: | ||
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2008-07-23
, 19:32
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Posts: 177 |
Thanked: 68 times |
Joined on Dec 2007
@ Phoenix
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#45
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Use what works for you. Pay for things you are unable to create yourself or obtain for free.
If something doesn't exist, sometimes it may simply reflect a lack of demand...
If something doesn't exist, sometimes it may simply reflect a lack of demand...
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2008-07-23
, 19:40
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Posts: 3,220 |
Thanked: 326 times |
Joined on Oct 2005
@ "Almost there!" (Monte Christo, Count of)
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#46
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Originally Posted by andreww
I do contribute. I don't do any of the things you mentioned above (anymore) because I either don't know how or don't have the time for it.
I don't think there's anything wrong with complaining about Linux, but how you complain determines whether it falls on deaf ears. While I would much prefer people use Linux, it doesn't actually harm me if they choose another product, with one exception: When they're contributing to OSS.
"If I can't program, I can't contribute to OSS" is actually not true. Here are some examples:
- While rants are one of the least helpful methods of contributing, it does at least give a voice and explain a problem.
- Free software is usually poorly documented. Writing a howto, language pack, etc. for a piece of software or explaining how to use multiple programs together goes a long way.
- I can program, but I'm not familiar with any of the problems with HWR. Digging around to find out about the algorithms used, any partial libraries that implement those algorithms, or otherwise creating a central repository for information could generate a lot of interest in it.
- Try to find some basic info about GUI design. I'm sure many developers would love it if a user provided a window mockup (or even Glade interface file!) for their app, and wouldn't mind improving the UI if a user willing to invest the time described it.
I won't claim that it's worth the time, but one last thing: Don't assume you can't program. You've already started if you've run a command in a shell. As soon as you're piping output or writing loops, assigning variables, you've already come pretty close. Of course, this information is only useful if you really want to
There are lots of people who don't necessarily write software on this forum that contribute to the Wiki, etc. It doesn't hurt to try to take another step and see what else you can do if you want to take the time.
Instead I do the easy thing: I give money. Do you want a list of OSS developers/projects I've donated to? I think (without bragging or giving out numbers) you'd be surprized at the amount.
As to the subject of HWR, just about any useful algorithm is private property and not OSS-ed. I do the only thing I can do: Write to the companies who own those algorithms and try to convince them that porting their software to Linux is a good thing and bound to make them much money in the forseeable future.
I knew of one person who claimed to have developed an algorithm that could compete with the commercial stuff, but a computer crash wiped his info from my ersatz memory. He was German, I believe his name was Dr Limburg or Limburger and the last thing I heard of him was when he offered his algorithm to be incorporated into the Xstroke codebase. Xstroke is now virtually dead, I can't find archives of the mailing list and obviously his algorithm didn't go in. If anybody knows about this guy, please ask him to reconsider, maybe get in touch with the CellWriter people, who look to be the only ones producing something that even resembles HWR for Linux.
__________________
Watch out Nokia, Pandora's box has opened (sorta)...
I do love explaining cryptic sigs, but for the impatient: http://www.openpandora.org/
Watch out Nokia, Pandora's box has opened (sorta)...
I do love explaining cryptic sigs, but for the impatient: http://www.openpandora.org/
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2008-07-23
, 20:24
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Posts: 83 |
Thanked: 27 times |
Joined on Jun 2008
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#47
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No need, I'm positive you've contributed more money than I have
That's too bad that the guy has disappeared. I've never experienced it so I don't really know what all I'm missing, but having good HWR sounds like it could make a lot of tools more interesting.
My comment was more general, because I don't like non-developers being attacked and UI and other non-dev work is becoming increasingly important for open source software.
That's too bad that the guy has disappeared. I've never experienced it so I don't really know what all I'm missing, but having good HWR sounds like it could make a lot of tools more interesting.
My comment was more general, because I don't like non-developers being attacked and UI and other non-dev work is becoming increasingly important for open source software.
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2008-07-23
, 23:39
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Posts: 3,220 |
Thanked: 326 times |
Joined on Oct 2005
@ "Almost there!" (Monte Christo, Count of)
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#48
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Originally Posted by andreww
There is, I believe, a minimum size beyond which a keyboard becomes just more trouble than it's worth. I've always believed that that minimum size coincides with the Psion Series 5's keyboard (although for me personally I'd draw the line at the Psion Netbook); the 5's keyboard allowed at least some people (those with not too huge hands) to touch-type on it and achieve reasonable word counts.
That's too bad that the guy has disappeared. I've never experienced it so I don't really know what all I'm missing, but having good HWR sounds like it could make a lot of tools more interesting.
My comment was more general, because I don't like non-developers being attacked and UI and other non-dev work is becoming increasingly important for open source software.
Make it any smaller and you're in th/dumbboard country, where typing is done with a sub-par number of fingers and typing blind results in gfliv!éjknjf^ù.
So I'll reiterate the advantages of modeless HWR:
- no hand-eye correlation issues; your eyes always see what your hand is writing;
- you're not forced to enter text at below-par speed (on my Newton and in PenOffice I can write as fast as I can on a regular piece of paper. Can you type as fast on the N8X0 as you can on a typewriter?);
- it doesn't take up screen space. You write wherever you want on the screen and the text ends up where it's supposed to go (note that I'm talking about mode-less HWR, not the "scribbling-in-a-dedicated-box-that-uses-one-third-of-the-screen" kind of HWR on Maemo;
- and finally: it's just fun! Scratching away on a computer screen unleashes the inner child in us, boots up the creativity generator and makes you one with everything -- including relish.
__________________
Watch out Nokia, Pandora's box has opened (sorta)...
I do love explaining cryptic sigs, but for the impatient: http://www.openpandora.org/
Watch out Nokia, Pandora's box has opened (sorta)...
I do love explaining cryptic sigs, but for the impatient: http://www.openpandora.org/
| The Following User Says Thank You to Karel Jansens For This Useful Post: | ||
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2008-07-24
, 00:02
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Posts: 96 |
Thanked: 1 time |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ Utah
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#49
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It would also be nice to see the dashboard of the n8x0 rethought, if the HWR were integrated. I've always loved Avi's backdrop on the Newt and the way that document creation worked (i.e. you just start writing and then shunt the document to whatever app it needs to go).
I just can't quit my Newt. When I'm making comments on papers, I sometimes write them out on the Newt and then BT them over to the Nokia or my desktop for formatting.
I hope, though, that the success of the Eee and all the netbooks makes folks rethink this size business. The n8x0 series is clearly an attempt to compete with the iPhone, but it's too small, but it's a phone that's not a phone, a camera that's not a camera, and a computer that's too small to do much in the way of normal computing, unless your eyes are very good.
Make the screen about 75% bigger, and the game changes.
I just can't quit my Newt. When I'm making comments on papers, I sometimes write them out on the Newt and then BT them over to the Nokia or my desktop for formatting.
I hope, though, that the success of the Eee and all the netbooks makes folks rethink this size business. The n8x0 series is clearly an attempt to compete with the iPhone, but it's too small, but it's a phone that's not a phone, a camera that's not a camera, and a computer that's too small to do much in the way of normal computing, unless your eyes are very good.
Make the screen about 75% bigger, and the game changes.
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2008-07-24
, 00:08
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Posts: 3,220 |
Thanked: 326 times |
Joined on Oct 2005
@ "Almost there!" (Monte Christo, Count of)
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#50
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Originally Posted by midwinter
Actually, it was rather easy for me to quit my Newt as my day-to-day PDA: It synchs with practically nothing, the screen is, in today's market, really pathetic (I don't know about others, but with a screen condom on, I can't see anything without the backlight and not much with) and the online experience is almost non-existent (no modern browser, not very friendly email client and extremely crippled TCP/IP stack).
I
I just can't quit my Newt. When I'm making comments on papers, I sometimes write them out on the Newt and then BT them over to the Nokia or my desktop for formatting.
But for writing, nothing beats that blooming green brick.
__________________
Watch out Nokia, Pandora's box has opened (sorta)...
I do love explaining cryptic sigs, but for the impatient: http://www.openpandora.org/
Watch out Nokia, Pandora's box has opened (sorta)...
I do love explaining cryptic sigs, but for the impatient: http://www.openpandora.org/
And anyone, even in US, can "get" windows and any other software free of charge... but I prefer to keep my computer 100% legal considering I work for the government.. wouldn't make much sense for me to have a computer network full of unauthorized illegitimate spyware and virus full illegal software when I can just use linux - get an almost identical counterpart for free, without the risk of virus or spyware being embedded. And since paying $230 for an OS license is simply not going to happen for me.. my entire house runs linux and I buy all new computers without an OS so I dont pay the added overhead of the windows cost.
But I am also patient with developers and things released ... or if I have extra time, because I am capable, I do it myself. Take Cedega and gaming for example.. I don't get to play the latest, released yesterday, wonderous games in the gaming world.. that's fine by me.. I will wait the 6 months until Cedega gets it either supported or at least running with hacks and I will play it then.
And again.. there's nothing wrong with people choosing to spend the money.. and if a product isn't up to your specifications and you can't wait.. then you are full aware of your alternative to buy a better one.. and that is entirely your choice.
And snooty remarks about volunteer developers go far to anybody that actually realizes warez is illegal and if caught could cost a hefty fine and possible imprisonement time depending on how much software you bought from the Korat mall..
If I've helped you or you use any of my packages feel free to help me out.
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