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waddell is offline waddell
2005-11-16 , 19:50
Posts: 42 | Thanked: 0 times | Joined on Nov 2005
#11
It should be pretty easy to make a compressable disk image using UNIX/LINUX for the various card sizes. Then under windows, you'd just need a small program to write the raw image over the top of a new card. A modified version of the floppy creation program used by the *BSD installers could do the trick. Any unix geek should be able to make the images, and any windows programmer should easily be able to make the image writer program. I wonder if the different brands of media have different have different numbers of sectors, in which case we'd need to make images for each kind of popular rs-mmc card. I haven't tested this - just thinking out loud.

We could proabably also add a small script to the FAT partition which could be copied to the device and then run as needed to mount the ext2 partition on the card.

As much as I like UNIX, it might be nice if those who don't want to learn it did not have to go through any extra trouble.
 
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RogerS is offline RogerS
2005-11-16 , 20:10
Posts: 772 | Thanked: 183 times | Joined on Jul 2005 @ Montclair, NJ (NYC suburbs)
#12
Originally Posted by bhima
You can reformat the RS-MMC card under Linux quite easily. I gave myself two partitions, the first one standard FAT and the second one ext2. The 770 mounts the first partition normally, so it looks like I have a 2MB card. In xterm, I type "mount /dev/mmc<blah>p2 /sw" (or wherever you want to mount the second partition) and it's there. It's not actually that hard.
I second the comments indicating this would be really useful.

Does your comment about reformatting under Linux being easy extend to reformatting under WinXP?

And when I connect the 770 to my WinXP laptop, it sees the RS-MMC card as the E: drive. Is that where I would do the reformatting of the card? Or are you talking about executing this reformatting within the 770's environment?

Thanks for taking the time to explain to yet another crossover Linux newcomer.
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mbassett is offline mbassett
2005-11-16 , 20:53
Posts: 10 | Thanked: 1 time | Joined on Nov 2005
#13
Just a quick query: I know that a symbolic link needs to be made on a "proper" :-) file system, but does it's target have to be on one? If not you could move /usr/whateveritwas/install directory onto a FAT formatted card, and still link to it...
 
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fpp is offline fpp
2005-11-16 , 21:41
Posts: 2,853 | Thanked: 968 times | Joined on Nov 2005
#14
That's OK for data, but will lead to problems for software (executables).

Actually there is a third way that could allow to install maemo apps in a "proper" Linux filesystem on the MMC card without reformatting or partitioning it (so it stays usable from a Windows PC through USB). It's done with a single (arbitrarily large) file stored on the FAT32 card, containing an "image" of an actual ext2/ext3/etc. filesystem. Through a trick known as "Linux loop devices" it is presented to the OS as a regular disk partition, and mounted like one.

I don't know how to do this myself, but I use it every day : on my Zaurus PDA I have a 50+ MB, writable Python development environment stored in such a file, stored on a FAT32 SD card, and to the Linux system it appears just as a regular bunch of directories in its main memory, through symlinks. The hero who provided us with this even created an installation package, so it's "download-and-click".

I really think this could be a good compromise between ease of use (no messing around with the MMC card) and functionality (Linux apps that work reliably from the card, without sacrificing Windows connectivity).

Although it's semi-magic to me, to many of the Linux hackers avidly wainting for their unit to arrive at this very moment, it's probably really old news, so I guess it will become a common option soon enough.

More info :
http://pyqplayer.sourceforge.net/cgi...honZaurusImage
 
mishref is offline mishref
2005-11-17 , 07:51
Posts: 11 | Thanked: 0 times | Joined on Nov 2005
#15
Since this is supposedly a soft launch, We should make a sticky and write the features that we would like OS-2006 to have (e.g. install to rs-mmc).
 
konttori is offline konttori
2005-11-17 , 08:12
Posts: 1,038 | Thanked: 737 times | Joined on Nov 2005 @ Helsinki
#16
Just as a quick thought, maybe someone could be interested in making a small graphical mount manager. This would also nicely help people who want to use a full size MMC card(as currently system only detects mmc inser on bay door close).
 
Remote User is offline Remote User
2005-11-18 , 07:30
Posts: 192 | Thanked: 5 times | Joined on Nov 2005 @ Eugene, Oregon
#17
Originally Posted by Titus
Is this only Application Installer's feature ie. can developer influence where to install program, when making a package for Application Installer? Nokia, please do something before it is too late: We'll run out of device memory, if good programs continue to emerge to this device. I want to install them all!
I suggest that you pay attention to the howto's that are beginning to spring up on this web site and learn how to create icons that will open up remote displays to all the apps that are on the networks to which you have access and authorization. This device is not best used as a tiny little PC but as a remote display device. It isn't a question of Nokia listening to your pleas to fortify the 770 but rather one of you listening to Nokia's efforts to provide you with the ultimate network display device. The device that holds all your apps and has all the memory and storage you'll ever need is a Linux PC on your network. The device that lets you access them all with freedom of movement and convenience of size is a 770. The 770 is never going to be both of those things. It's a supplement to your Linux PC, not a replacement for it. Read Real Nitro's howto's and throw off your frustrations. Nokia can't help you but you don't need Nokia's help. You just need to get your head around the idea that you live in the network computing era.
 
Remote User is offline Remote User
2005-11-18 , 07:43
Posts: 192 | Thanked: 5 times | Joined on Nov 2005 @ Eugene, Oregon
#18
Originally Posted by Titus
It seems to me, that for average user, not Linux expert, this memory limit is here to stay for now on. Using xterm or hacking firmware before you can get your software to work is no option for mass market product. In my opinion it limits 770's usability as a PDA, especially if program's data files (e.g. even browser's cache) also are on system memory (e.g. GPS software would probably need alone more memory than 770 is capable of providing). Not that Nokia ever marketed it as a PDA, but still a little disappointing.
Not picking on you - I'm responding to what you're writing...
Xterm is absolutely the option for the mass market. Opening an X term and a window on a remote app is a trivial task for a desktop icon launching script. Real Nitro's already documented it. Once the icon is created all you have to do is touch it and you have a window on any remote application that's up and running. And you can have several windows open at once, each one on a separate remote app. If you're frustrated or disappointed you don't understand how easy it is to make use of the 770 in the way it was intended, as a remote wireless touchscreen display to a world full of remote apps, whether they're running on a PC in the room you're in or on an application running on a cluster (or grid) that's on the other side of the world.

You don't have to install any such 'desktop' apps on your 770 - you only need to access them from your 770. Forget how it's done on a Windows PC, or on a Linux PC that emulates the Windows PC experience. That's not what the 770 is about. Sure, it's a bit of a PDA, but it gets its real power from the remote resources that it effortlessly accesses. Honestly, it took Real Nitro about five minutes to figure out what to do with a tiny little hint that I gave to him and his initial reaction to seeing all that software jump up on his display was OMFG! And he didn't install any of those apps, or run out of memory, or drive his 770's processors into the ground or hack any firmware, or anything! Plus, he wrote a howto for you. Try to 'get it' - you can if you try. Leave the island - swim in the ocean!
 
Titus is offline Titus
2005-11-18 , 08:30
Posts: 58 | Thanked: 3 times | Joined on Nov 2005
#19
Thank you Remote User for your encouraging words. I just read RealNitro's Howto on subject, and it sounded very interesting. I will most certainly try it. However our definition on "mass market product" probably differs. I seriously doubt that Nokia's average customer (not just 770's first buyers) has a Linux computer running the X-server and sshd on his/her network.

Many seems to have rather strong opinions on how to use Nokia 770. Using it as a PDA might be one option. I would like to have software like Abiword and Plucker and I am really grateful for programmers who are doing hard work for porting these applications. If only thing we really need is SSH and xTerm, all the developers for 770 should stop they work right now, everything is done already?!
 
RealNitro is offline RealNitro
2005-11-18 , 12:25
Posts: 34 | Thanked: 1 time | Joined on Oct 2005
#20
Originally Posted by Titus
Thank you Remote User for your encouraging words. I just read RealNitro's Howto on subject, and it sounded very interesting. I will most certainly try it. However our definition on "mass market product" probably differs. I seriously doubt that Nokia's average customer (not just 770's first buyers) has a Linux computer running the X-server and sshd on his/her network.

Many seems to have rather strong opinions on how to use Nokia 770. Using it as a PDA might be one option. I would like to have software like Abiword and Plucker and I am really grateful for programmers who are doing hard work for porting these applications. If only thing we really need is SSH and xTerm, all the developers for 770 should stop they work right now, everything is done already?!
I think there will be two classes of N770 users. One 'class' will _always_ use their N770 in a local network (possibly connected to the internet) to access/controll other machines. The other class wil use it like a PDA. And the device will please both of those 'classes'. The first class will be able to browse local websites to controll iTunes or other jukeboxes, use remote X-windows (or a remote X-session, stream video to it, surf the web, ... They will use the N770 as a remote or a terminal for their server or desktop pc.
The others will be able to install all kinds of small apps to read e-books, play games, manage their tasks, surf the net (when near a hotspot), ...

And really, setting up a computer to run an X-server and an ssh server isn't that hard. Any experienced computer user can do it. Just find a computer with a free partition and install Ubuntu Linux on it. I'll check what it takes to get the ssh server running on a default install tonight. I think it will be a matter of checking a box and pushing a button. (It might even be installed by default.)
 
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