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2008-09-24
, 19:39
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Posts: 3,790 |
Thanked: 5,718 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
@ Vienna, Austria
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#462
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Please use the (Quote) Button! It would be much easier to read your comments that way.
There are only very few applications that rely on the hardware buttons you mention (I think Vagalume does for volume); usually they're only an additional way to do something that can well be done on the touch screen in some menu.
All of this is there on my N800. And it's even faster than the 90Mhz Pentium with 192MB of RAM I use at weekends.
The only thing missing are a few expansion slots for network-, sound- or graphic-cards. I hope the N900 will... no.
Originally Posted by SD69
... which drives me nuts.
... since none of us are sure where exactly the UI in Maemo 5 is headed.
Originally Posted by SD69
Really? That's the ONLY thing that makes the tablets mostly different?? Not the battery life? Not the nice touch screen display? Nothing else at all? UMPCs let you run Windows desktop apps - so the tablets about as distinguished from other small platforms as UMPCs?
- Battery life is nice, but: My S60 cellphone can do many of the things the tablet does for me (and there's more software) and has a much better battery life.
- Touch screen: I don't get this one. We both know there are a lot of devices with touch screens around.
- UMPCs: You almost got me. If Nokia didn't have the tablets, I'd probably have bought a UMPC. It's almost the same concept, only too big and too heavy. I will seriously look at Moblin-based devices though as they become mature.
Originally Posted by SD69
UI for me is the UI of the application on the screen; I probably don't even think of the D-pad etc. because in my world, applications don't know if they happen to run on a Nokia tablet, on a Moblin-based device or on my desktop. So the UI is what the application draws on the screen, not what (more or less by chance) is in the hardware.
ummmmm, the tablets have a UI made only for mobile use... and mobile UIs are not just simpler than other UIs; they're different. how often do you saw a D-pad on a full size keyboard? zoom keys? switch view key? can we please have some respect for mobile UI design??
There are only very few applications that rely on the hardware buttons you mention (I think Vagalume does for volume); usually they're only an additional way to do something that can well be done on the touch screen in some menu.
Originally Posted by SD69
Again, as with your statement above about the touch screen, I don't understand what you're saying here. My own private definition of a desktop-like experience is: A start menu, applications that run side by side and show their icons in the status bar so that I can easily switch, a number of small status icons, a unix-type file system, the possibility to install and uninstall applications (or write my own if only I could), windows, application menus, dialogs, buttons, drop down menus, checkboxes...
"stays"?? to date, the tablet have very little in common with desktop-experience.
All of this is there on my N800. And it's even faster than the 90Mhz Pentium with 192MB of RAM I use at weekends.
The only thing missing are a few expansion slots for network-, sound- or graphic-cards. I hope the N900 will... no.
Originally Posted by SD69
I don't see how any application would need to "support" a touch screen. Applications support clicks (or rather: listen to such events), and the touch screen is one way to produce them (as is the touchpad on a laptop, which applications don't "support").
for example, very few desktop apps have support for a touch screen. so I hope you are not advocating that we run apps on mobile touch screen device even though they do not support the touch screen? I have seen some of these desktop apps shoehorned onto the tablet - they can't possibly work well and can I just say ugggghly!!
Originally Posted by SD69
I'm not quite sure what your idea of "leveraging" is in this context. My opinion is that it should be enough in most cases to hildonize the beast. There are applications that will need more attention UI-wise: you know, the one gigantic options dialog that's twice as high as the screen might look better when split into 3 tabs etc. - But that's cosmetics and fine tuning. In general, I feel more comfortable when an application looks the same on my tablet as it does on my desktop. I use the same applications with the same settings on all my computers. Why should the tablet be different?
I think maybe the proper point is that we want to LEVERAGE desktop apps, properly adapted and hildonized, and not just ported and running on a smaller device.
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2008-09-24
, 19:53
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Posts: 4,930 |
Thanked: 2,272 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
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#463
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Originally Posted by Jerome
Okay, so it won't take anything by storm. Big deal; no device will. The iPhone took nothing except the media by storm. The Eee was perhaps the closest, but only because it came from nothing. No successor in a line of devices will take things by storm, and there's loads of hype about all of them anyway...
OK. I have been thinking about our last discussions here, and there is something strange about it. They change focus.
At first, the N900 was going to take the world by storm because it would allow voip over umts /hsdpa (and massive savings, whatever). Then I pointed out that the entire present N-series and E-series line from Nokia allow voip over umts /hsdpa now. With their built-in software. It's not the future, it's the present. Yet I see no storm. (note that there is another reason why voip over umts is not a great idea, technically speaking, read end of post).
Then, the N900 was going to take the world by storm because it was a new "PC paradigm". Or whatever. I don't see how that could possibly be related to always on connectivity and I'd like to point out that the N800/N810 already are this "new paradigm", yet we do not see a storm of applications for them.
(I haven't reread the discussions to verify this, but my impression has been that different people have different emphases, different reasons they think it will be awesome, not that certain people are ducking around to different issues. And I think most people would say it's a combination; obviously it's not going to take over the world by virtue of using desktop software alone, or laptops (running desktop software) would have done so already!)
Then there is this:
What? They don't have anything? What have they been doing all that time? Let me recall you the timeline:Speculation treated as though it's reliable
-end 2005: 770
-end 2006: N800 (actually early 2007)
-end 2007: N810
-we are now at end 2008, and talking N900 all dancing singing in a near future. And if they have not even started, we are talking end 2009 at best (manufacturing delays, etc...). Yet, we now have real competitors like: iPhone, Android, eeepc, etc...
- end 2005: 770
- early 2007: N8x0 #1
- end 2007: N8x0 #2
- end 2008: N8x0 #3
- reasonable predictions seem to indicate mid 2009: N9xx
Am I the only one to smell the stench of vaporware? At best, the maemo division is severely understaffed (which is never a good sign). At worst....
The N810 has a 1500 mAh battery and you all know how long it runs the show when you use it for something more than sleep mode. If you want the N900 to run voip over hsdpa for 8 hours a day, you will need a battery roughly twice as big. No improvement on battery technology is on the horizon, so it is going to be twice the volume and twice the weight.
This is what always online means. Think about it.
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World's first inductively-charged N900!
World's first inductively-charged N900!
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2008-09-24
, 19:54
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#464
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<sarcasm>Wow, good thing I'm not a product VP. All the hardcore pessimism would induce me to just give up entirely. Apparently there's just no hope at all for future NITs</sarcasm>
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2008-09-24
, 20:01
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#466
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Originally Posted by brontide
The company has been increasingly forthcoming on the tablets and software. I see no credit whatsoever for that from naysayers and detractors. None.
Right, the community is back to speculating based on what we know because Nokia is being cagey.
Guys, this ain't black and white.
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2008-09-24
, 20:12
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Posts: 274 |
Thanked: 62 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ Helotes, TX
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#467
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Originally Posted by tso
I'm using the LG CU720 (Shine) with tethering @ 3G.
both sonyericsson and lg sell featurephones that have hspa and bluetooth.
Subjectively, it feels faster than tethering through my Nokia 6555 @ 3G.
__________________
Mitch Thompson, Helotes, TX USA
N800|2x 16GB SDHC|PDAir case|i737 BT GPS
"There are two major products that come out of Berkeley: LSD and BSD. We don't believe this to be a coincidence. " - Jeremy S. Anderson
N800|2x 16GB SDHC|PDAir case|i737 BT GPS
"There are two major products that come out of Berkeley: LSD and BSD. We don't believe this to be a coincidence. " - Jeremy S. Anderson
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2008-09-24
, 20:13
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Posts: 868 |
Thanked: 474 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
@ Capital District, NY, USA
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#468
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Originally Posted by Texrat
Oh really...so this is as good as we are going to get and we should be happy with it?
The company has been increasingly forthcoming on the tablets and software. I see no credit whatsoever for that from naysayers and detractors. None.
Guys, this ain't black and white.
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2008-09-24
, 20:16
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Posts: 1,097 |
Thanked: 650 times |
Joined on Nov 2007
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#469
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Originally Posted by benny1967
I see this vision failing majorly (don't get me wrong, I understand what you want personally). But if the aim of the tablets is to carry over all (or most) desktop apps to a portable device and only that (so that we have a LOT of apps), then it is doomed. There has been many such devices (Zaurus to start with with Debian ported over, many Windows based MID's) where desktop apps have been ported (or the whole OS in fact). But porting an app is only half the job. The actual part is making it usable, and that is where this paradigm fails miserably.
The one and probably only thing that makes the tablets different from most competing and semi-similar platforms is the fact that they are, in fact, small desktop PCs and you can port desktop applications with little, sometimes no effort.
This is the only reason why I bought the thing in the first place. I didn't want a "mobile device" that's crippled because some design guru said mobile interfaces have to be restricted. I wanted everything I have on my desktop, only smaller. That's what I've got.
Why, oh why would a general user want the full featured desktop app on his little 4" screened device ? I mean would I want the tablet apps to be ported over to my little 2" phone next, just so I can have access to most popular apps on every device ? That IS NOT the point of mobile devices.
IPhone interface (and I am not praising iPhone here, so lets not go there) is an example of mobile devices having its own unique UI and UX which should be distinct from its desktop application.
Mobile apps can compliment the desktop apps in function and extend it that way, but just porting a desktop app to a mobile platform, UI and all, does not a mobile application make.
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2008-09-24
, 20:17
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Posts: 4,930 |
Thanked: 2,272 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
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#470
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Originally Posted by brontide
Now think: "increasingly", wouldn't that imply a continuing process? If you think he used the wrong words, say so, but your proposed interpretation doesn't follow from what he said.
Oh really...so this is as good as we are going to get and we should be happy with it?
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World's first inductively-charged N900!
World's first inductively-charged N900!
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What we DO know
Engineering is not easy and I don't see Nokia dedicating even more resources then it already has working on Maemo ( 100+ employees? )
So yes we are speculating, but we are not just pulling that out of thin air and honestly I think many are being too optimistic. It took what 4 months to get Maemo 4.1 hammered out... and that was based on a production release of Maemo 4... we don't even have an Alpha SDK on a basically new stack.
So best case we see an Alpha SDK this year new year '08 + 4 months for a stable SDK + another month for a stable firmware. That's 8 months away being optimistic.