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tso is offline tso
2008-09-25 , 15:36
Posts: 4,783 | Thanked: 1,253 times | Joined on Aug 2007 @ norway
#521
well if one could turn a beagleboard into a tablet-like, then its not that far off...
 
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2008-09-25 , 16:32
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#522
Originally Posted by benny1967 View Post
Ah... choice! I wait for the day when I buy a little tablet-like device without OS and decide at home if I want to install Maemo, Ubuntu Mobile or any other distro made for it - the same way I did with my desktop PC. It's only hardware, isn't it?
Right on, brutha. And like they always say, "Hardware is the b*tch of software, and your ISP is just another utility." Well, maybe it's just me who says that.
 
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ARJWright is offline ARJWright
2008-09-25 , 17:02
Posts: 861 | Thanked: 734 times | Joined on Jan 2008 @ Nomadic
#523
Originally Posted by SD69 View Post
Well, it's not exactly checkmate, but it is a point for the debate team

I encourage comments on UI support issues. I had to read a lot of irrelevant VoIP over HDPA comments on this thread so please indulge the Ui dialog. Thanks.
Well, those points about VoIP, HSPA, and even processors are relevant. And moreso than UI at this point. There's only concepts of UI that we can talk about in this thread that are relevant to Maemo 5. Everything else is based on use of Diablo and conjecture towards what we can see.

Until those other pieces are ironed out, and some defined rules come out of those pieces such as:

- there will be a touchscreen, but what type
- there will be a capable enough processor to do video out, but how so
- will there be a physical keyboard
- and so on...

For us to stay on topic in this thread, those answers would be needed. Nothing about UI/UX was detailed in any notes that came from the summit.

Now, if we wanna start talking about what UI concepts could be present in Maemo 5 (in effect building the bridge before we get to the stream); then either on the Tablet UI Blog, or here in another thread, we can start that discussion.
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Last edited by ARJWright; 2008-09-25 at 17:05. Reason: added some clarity
 
SD69 is offline SD69
2008-09-25 , 17:31
Posts: 1,513 | Thanked: 2,248 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ US
#524
Originally Posted by ARJWright View Post
Well, those points about VoIP, HSPA, and even processors are relevant. And moreso than UI at this point. There's only concepts of UI that we can talk about in this thread that are relevant to Maemo 5. Everything else is based on use of Diablo and conjecture towards what we can see.

Until those other pieces are ironed out, and some defined rules come out of those pieces such as:

- there will be a touchscreen, but what type
- there will be a capable enough processor to do video out, but how so
- will there be a physical keyboard
- and so on...

For us to stay on topic in this thread, those answers would be needed. Nothing about UI/UX was detailed in any notes that came from the summit.

Now, if we wanna start talking about what UI concepts could be present in Maemo 5 (in effect building the bridge before we get to the stream); then either on the Tablet UI Blog, or here in another thread, we can start that discussion.
Well personally, I think the comments about VoIP are relevant, and the comments about HSPA are relevant (I made some of them), but the comments on VoIP over HSPA are not nearly so.

You are wrong to say that a speculative discussion of UI is not, or even less, relevant. Excuse me, but we have an existing UI with Diablo release, and I am trying to sort out (with all the discussion of moving to desktop frameworks) how that is going to continue to play out; not building the bridge of a new UI before the stream (not that I even udnerstand that metaphor...).

There is plenty of off-topic discussion having nothing to do with Maemo 5 so why are you interrupting my UI in Maemo 5 discussion? If you are not interested in the UI conversation, then simply don't participate in it.
 
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ARJWright is offline ARJWright
2008-09-25 , 17:52
Posts: 861 | Thanked: 734 times | Joined on Jan 2008 @ Nomadic
#525
Originally Posted by SD69 View Post
There is plenty of off-topic discussion having nothing to do with Maemo 5 so why are you interrupting my UI in Maemo 5 discussion? If you are not interested in the UI conversation, then simply don't participate in it.
Interrupting? Uh...

Originally Posted by SD69
I encourage comments on UI support issues. I had to read a lot of irrelevant VoIP over HDPA comments on this thread so please indulge the Ui dialog. Thanks.
I am only continuing what I started when I began responding in this thread many pages ago.

My opinion is that one cannot talk about UI when the frameworks for making one are not established. There has been very little towards defined hardware and UX goals for M5 that have been given, and therefore any conversation on UI will be full of conjecture from Diablo and other previous experience. Those experiences aren't invalid, they just have no context in the next OS until those frameworks come.

My aim is cohesion when we do get the device in hand; which - according to what has been seen so far of the plans for M5 - is the context we should view things for M5.

Not interrupting, just adding context
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igor is offline igor
2008-09-25 , 18:05
Posts: 198 | Thanked: 273 times | Joined on Jan 2006 @ Helsinki, Finland
#526
Originally Posted by qole View Post
  • You mean your test hardware will be open, or the final hardware? Or both?
  • What is the ARM9 you mentioned? That's not the OMAP3, right?
  • Your board has an ethernet port! Cool!
  • The test HW will be open. The final HW won't, but if you are interested in general into OMAP3 based boards, I suppose the TI SDP and the Beagl board schematics should be open. Same goes for Pandora. OK, we have also the cellmo, but that's a Nokia asic and you are not going to see it open anytime soon. OTOH few days ago the implementation for the SSI driver (OMAP-cellmo interface) has been posted to the linux-omap ml.
  • the ARM 9 mentioned is in an ST uC:
    http://www.st.com/mcu/devicedocs-STR911FAM47.html
  • The ethernet is used to output the measured samples and make them available to a standard PC (due to the high traffic we plan to use an USB2ETH adapter).

Recently we also released a tool for kernel power management debugging:
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux...match=launonen

That is the proof that we are really trying to be as open as we can, not just releasing a code dump and running away, but instead making available the very same tools we use.
 

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Texrat is offline Texrat
2008-09-25 , 18:56
Posts: 11,700 | Thanked: 10,045 times | Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA
#527
Originally Posted by igor View Post
That is the proof that we are really trying to be as open as we can, not just releasing a code dump and running away, but instead making available the very same tools we use.
But... is that increasing???



(sorry for the bad joke... I could not resist)
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SD69 is offline SD69
2008-09-25 , 19:01
Posts: 1,513 | Thanked: 2,248 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ US
#528
Originally Posted by ARJWright View Post
Interrupting? Uh...

My opinion is that one cannot talk about UI when the frameworks for making one are not established. There has been very little towards defined hardware and UX goals for M5 that have been given, and therefore any conversation on UI will be full of conjecture from Diablo and other previous experience. Those experiences aren't invalid, they just have no context in the next OS until those frameworks come.
Fine, provide all the substantive comments and context you want. But my conversation on UI is not O/T and is inappropriate because it's based on conjecture. A lot of the posts here are conjecture or speculation. Your opinion as to what should be discussed is not more important than anybody else's and this is the third post in a row you have purported to say what should be discussed in this thread. As to interrupting... you told me to take my conversation somewhere else - to wit:

"For us to stay on topic in this thread, those answers would be needed. Nothing about UI/UX was detailed in any notes that came from the summit.
Now, if we wanna start talking about what UI concepts could be present in Maemo 5 (in effect building the bridge before we get to the stream); then either on the Tablet UI Blog, or here in another thread, we can start that discussion."

Interrupting was a bit of a polite euphemism when you TWICE IN A ROW said that, in your opinion, the UI wasn't worth talking about and told me to go somewhere else to talk about it even after I politely asked your indulgence in letting me talk about UI.
 
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2008-09-25 , 19:25
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#529
I'd like to ask ALL participants in this thread a few things:

-indulge everyone who engages in reasonable speculation that stems from the original topic. I think we can all acknowledge that it's a pretty broad door.

-try to avoid denigrating someone's position unless of course that position involves trolling. Personally I find the posts that are purely negative and contain nothing constructive to be trolling or very close.

Now, this is Reggie's forum and I'm no moderator-- I'm just asking as one who for the most part is enjoying the discussion... and that includes contributions from SD69 and ARJWright.

EDIT: and yes, I include my recent sarcastic post to be negative... sorry.
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SD69 is offline SD69
2008-09-25 , 19:59
Posts: 1,513 | Thanked: 2,248 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ US
#530
Originally Posted by lma View Post
That was a 1510 @ 168MHz, and if it proved anything it was that it couldn't drive the large(-ish, 640x320) screen. That UI was *slow*!

Still, if it wasn't for that device we wouldn't be here talking about the N900 right now :-)
Ahh, yes it was slow but somebody at Nokia told me it was because of the software (S70 was it?). They knew the HW would catch up; it was the software fork which evidently did the product in.

We also might not have the iPhone (the large icons on the iPhone gave me deja vu). The 7710 was just landscape orientation instead of portrait.
 
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