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SD69 is offline SD69
2008-10-16 , 20:41
Posts: 1,513 | Thanked: 2,248 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ US
#31
Originally Posted by sjgadsby View Post
a vocal portion of the pro-desktop-ports contingent isn't interested in Hildonization or any UI tweaking beyond the bare minimum needed to get a new desktop application mostly working. To them, the tablets are just more Linux boxen, if unusually small ones, and Nokia's finger friendly efforts just get in the way.

As building your multi-mode UI would require even more work during a port, I don't see it being universally embraced.
I also don't want a multi-mode UI developed. Just simply enabling an external monitor prevents the small buttons (see post #20) and other anomalies that occur when porting a desktop app onto the small internal screen. With an external monitor (and an external keyboard), a ported desktop app becomes more usable even without changes to its UI or changes to Hildon. And I would think video out could be a sort of compromise to accomodate that contingent you mentioned.

But let's not forget that there was also a more radical (IMHO) faction that actually advocated doing away with the D-pad and other parts of the "optimization for mobile apps" on the theory that doing so will deter development of mobile specific apps and thus foster porting of desktop apps. While I would accept video out, I otherwise join with the OP in believing that we should not do anything to harm the mobile optimization, and that certainly includes changing the UI. (Edit: This does not apply to changes made to make the UI an (allegedly) better mobile UI such as Ragnar has suggested. But I know what I like in my wardrobe (obscure musical reference) and I know what I like in my mobile UI. If the UI changes are to be a iphone-like minimalist touch screen with no HW buttons, then I am skeptical and we will just have to wait to see what is the fad and what is the classic that stands the test of time. And hopefully we will have some kind of a multi-mode that permits use of the old UI if we prefer)
Last edited by SD69; 2008-10-16 at 21:01.
 
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penguinbait is offline penguinbait
2008-10-16 , 21:11
Posts: 3,096 | Thanked: 1,525 times | Joined on Jan 2006 @ Michigan, USA
#32
Originally Posted by SD69 View Post
I also don't want a multi-mode UI developed. Just simply enabling an external monitor prevents the small buttons (see post #20) and other anomalies that occur when porting a desktop app onto the small internal screen. With an external monitor (and an external keyboard), a ported desktop app becomes more usable even without changes to its UI or changes to Hildon. And I would think video out could be a sort of compromise to accomodate that contingent you mentioned.

But let's not forget that there was also a more radical (IMHO) faction that actually advocated doing away with the D-pad and other parts of the "optimization for mobile apps" on the theory that doing so will deter development of mobile specific apps and thus foster porting of desktop apps. While I would accept video out, I otherwise join with the OP in believing that we should not do anything to harm the mobile optimization, and that certainly includes changing the UI.

Its already been proven that its very simple to switch from hildon/maemo to KDE, window maker, afterstep, XFCE or others and easily switch back without rebooting or causing any issues.

I think that the people who want an alternate UI do not want to switch, but add options. (well speaking for myself)

What the problem is, leaving alternates up to the community, and No "real" developers have attempted running a native alternate UI. So people like me,end up doing what we can, with no optimizations, no code changes, just straight desktop code compiled. The problem with this, is evident. Nokia could spend a little time to create 1 single alternate UI with a real Linux look and feel. One that the menus are the same as Maemo, with hooks and widgets into the underlying OS.

Even if it was unsupported officially, it would make many people happy.

Again, maybe I am speaking for myself? It would make me happy
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benny1967 is offline benny1967
2008-10-16 , 21:16
Posts: 3,790 | Thanked: 5,718 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria
#33
Originally Posted by sjgadsby View Post
Has any individual computing device ever accommodated everyone? Is that a workable goal?
Atari 400.

End of conversation.


 
lny98 is offline lny98
2008-10-21 , 18:25
Posts: 50 | Thanked: 6 times | Joined on Nov 2007
#34
I suspect that the N800 platform is going to be squeezed out by netbooks on one end, and smart phones (iPhone/Android) on the other. It may retain some market share as a swiss army knife (aka Linux) for the tech elite, but not for the regular gadgetter let alone end user (student, business person).

Pocketability: I suspect that this advantage (size) is overrated. I do not transport it in my pocket, I throw it in a backpack /suitcase /briefcase. Weight does matter, but now that the netbooks are approaching 2 lbs, I willing to trade the weight for the usability. (And I understand the other tradeoffs with weight: power supply weight, battery life).

Software: Kudos for everyone who's ever contributed, but in the end, the software for the tablet never really came together well. Its a shame to think my Palm PDA works better and easier, out of the box, than the Maemo does, for things like PDA functions, handling Office documents, etc. etc.

In the end, I think Nokia should have concentrated it on making it a decent PDA, a decent GPS (ie: 810), media player, (pick your basic function here), and then really pumped up third parties (not just open source) to write other apps. Sort of like what Palm 8 years ago, what Apple is doing now. It worked!

My 2cents.
 
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briand is offline briand
2008-10-21 , 18:29
Posts: 566 | Thanked: 145 times | Joined on Feb 2008 @ Tallahassee, FL
#35
I'll give you a 50% rebate on your two cents, if you tell us how well your Palm PDA renders (transcoded 800x480) MPEG2 video streams from your wireless network.

A lot of people seem to think this thing is a PDA. It's not. It is an Internet Tablet.

$0.01 rebate. Remainder to be used to further improvements on the Information SuperHighway.
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Last edited by briand; 2008-10-21 at 18:31.
 

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tso is offline tso
2008-10-21 , 19:04
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#36
Originally Posted by briand View Post
A lot of people seem to think this thing is a PDA. It's not. It is an Internet Tablet.
meh, its a arm based pocket sized linux computer, anything else is marketing speak.
 

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allnameswereout is offline allnameswereout
2008-10-21 , 19:52
Posts: 3,397 | Thanked: 1,212 times | Joined on Jul 2008 @ Netherlands
#37
Originally Posted by nilchak View Post
When designing apps - the concept of "workable" always applies to which environment and platform you are designing for.

Just because a spreadsheet is "workable" on a desktop PC, doesnt mean it is "workable" on a tablet - even if you could actually run it.
Just because it can run doesn't neccesarily mean it can "work".

A good app design takes this important distinction of "workable" into factor I believe. Its not what can run, but what can work - both hardware constraints wise and usable design wise.

Again, this is just the way I look at it. I understand that some people here need everything to run on the tablet and somehow work on it too.
(Good point.)

Because they can. Or because any other application designed for the NIT isn't up to par for one reason or another.

Running applications not designed for the NIT is good for others reasons: performance testing, seeing why the user interface is not good in general, seeing if the user interface is not good for the NIT.

The NIT is a Linux computer. It has hardware running on Linux. Many hardware is used together with Linux. Tons of embedded. Look at Linuxdevices. However, a Linux computer is not necessarily a NIT. A Linux computer is a very broad definition. To most people Linux is mostly known to run on servers, and then PC desktops. That doesn't mean the NIT is a Linux server or Linux PC desktop. Its the definition of 'computer' which is the culprit.

Same with voting 'machines'; they're not 'machines'; they're computers.
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allnameswereout is offline allnameswereout
2008-10-21 , 19:57
Posts: 3,397 | Thanked: 1,212 times | Joined on Jul 2008 @ Netherlands
#38
Originally Posted by lny98 View Post
I suspect that the N800 platform is going to be squeezed out by netbooks on one end, and smart phones (iPhone/Android) on the other.
I suspect they won't get squeezed out. Nettops will be used as travel laptops. Smartphones as well, but for lighter purposes. This includes phoning, but not only that. I suspect Nokia realizes this, and I suspect the smartphone will be merged with the PDA and Internet Tablet. That doesn't mean the NIT dies or gets 'squeezed out'; it'll just be able to do more.

Think about it. Qt + Linux or Qt + Symbian? As long as you have your applications!

BTW, from TV I learned the Dutch law says one isn't allowed to hold a phone in the car while driving. This is against phoning + driving, but it also counts for e.g. SMS, or even navigation. I should look the law up but this sounds like a loopwhile where one can phone using the NIT + SIP (+ WAN like HS*PA or WiMAX) in your hand.
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edt is offline edt
2008-10-22 , 00:37
Posts: 27 | Thanked: 3 times | Joined on Jan 2008
#39
Originally Posted by penguinbait View Post
World's first portable computer weighs 60 pounds, is built like a tank, and runs only on AC power.



http://www.computercloset.org/ibm5100.htm

Key Dates: Announced September 9, 1975

Original Price: $8975 to $19,975 depending on memory (16K, 32K, 48K or 64K) and language (APL, BASIC, or both) options


CPU: IBM circuit module

Operating System: BASIC and/or APL

Input/Output: Built-in 5" monochrome monitor with 16-line by 64-character display; built-in tape drive with 204KB capacity; proprietary printer connection for 5103 printer and 5106 auxiliary tape drive



Its a computer and a pretty darn awesome one compared to the first portable computer. I'd say the price is pretty good also

Believe it or not I actually programed one of these beasts. They were an exceptional kit for the period.
 
shanti is offline shanti
2008-10-22 , 08:24
Posts: 41 | Thanked: 13 times | Joined on Oct 2008
#40
Yes, I really think, that N810 IS computer. I can even make normal programming on it when have not access to my PC! I'm sure, that netbooks NEVER will never be so convinient as N8xx.
 
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