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Bundyo is offline Bundyo
2008-10-27 , 18:17
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#61
Originally Posted by allnameswereout View Post
No; the assumption is that the user runs one application, and runs this application well.
If such an assumption is true, why Stevie is not running only one application on his desktops and laptops too? What is the reason for your application to be killed whenever you receive a call? And does everyone wants to sacrifice background applications to have only one application running good on a processor gathering dust?
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benny1967 is offline benny1967
2008-10-27 , 18:34
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#62
Originally Posted by allnameswereout View Post
What examples, besides cellphone, you don't like about iPhone?
  • no multitasking (ok, not correct technically, but from a user's point of view)
  • UI is finger-only, which means overly simplified (not even copy/paste!)
  • UI doesn't scale well (like nested menus do), which again forces applications to be disturbingly reduced in functionality

i find it surprisingly useless. most of what i do in my daily routine i cannot do on the iphone in a practical way.
 
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allnameswereout is offline allnameswereout
2008-10-27 , 19:23
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#63
So, IRC is only input. RSS is only input. Browser is interactive. In that case, it makes sense the browser is full screen. But the interaction between RSS and browser is minor. So these can run full screen as well, or transparent in a sortof gadget mode (difficult).

If you compare the way how settings are changed between MicroB and Fennec, or the way a bookmark is accessed compared between the 2, how can you not understand most people will prefer the Fennec way once they're used to it? Because they think visual, in pictures? Maybe because programmers and geeks are bad designers!

I use the term gestures instead of mouse gestures because not necessarily a mouse is used.

If I want to not harass other people with my sound, I simply put it off. My brightness I would rather not touch back and forth because I have better things to do than that.

Originally Posted by Bundyo View Post
If such an assumption is true, why Stevie is not running only one application on his desktops and laptops too? What is the reason for your application to be killed whenever you receive a call? And does everyone wants to sacrifice background applications to have only one application running good on a processor gathering dust?
You misunderstood.

(And, actually, some computers do what you describe, both GNOME and KDE support this; kiosk mode; often used on thin clients.)

No; the assumption is that the user runs one application, and runs this application well. The user is allowed to run an other application, but it is assumed the user prefers focus on the current application.
Various applications always run on the computer. Some might run in the UI. I'm not arguing only one application is allowed at a time. I'm arguing a user, in general, wishes to focus on one application instead of seeing multiple.

IOW, a kiosk mode which does allow (several) background tasks [multitasking] and does allow non-full screen [desktop environment] but not by default. It is assumed the user has full focus on the application. This way, the application can take more advantage of touch screen, finger-based and there is more space more e.g. virtual keyboard besides the actual application.

Speaking of the virtual keyboard. Have you tried the Python + QEdje virtual keyboard? The focussed key pops up, and its not selected until the user leaves the finger off the touchscreen. This is also a good, usability related feature. The designer can assume the user approaches the key the user wishes to tap, but not necessarily accurately. Hence, this is a good solution for this problem. Here is another demo, showing QEdje + QZion (by INdT developer). This shows even more the powerful possibilities of QEdje. And don't forget... Edje is fast!
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Last edited by allnameswereout; 2008-10-27 at 19:35. Reason: QEdje
 
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Bundyo is offline Bundyo
2008-10-27 , 19:49
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#64
Originally Posted by allnameswereout View Post
You misunderstood.

(And, actually, some computers do what you describe, both GNOME and KDE support this; kiosk mode; often used on thin clients.)

Various applications always run on the computer. Some might run in the UI. I'm not arguing only one application is allowed at a time. I'm arguing a user, in general, wishes to focus on one application instead of seeing multiple.

IOW, a kiosk mode which does allow (several) background tasks [multitasking] and does allow non-full screen [desktop environment] but not by default. It is assumed the user has full focus on the application. This way, the application can take more advantage of touch screen, finger-based and there is more space more e.g. virtual keyboard besides the actual application.
Nah, i didn't There are many apps running in the iPhone too, but the you're not allowed to utilize more than one user-made. You have no daemonized IM client, you can't have a simple copy and paste replacement (doing Apple's work). And every user at some point needs to use more than one application at a time.

I'm not arguing that you can't accept and live with the limitation. But it is still a limitation. At least they dropped the stupid NDA lately.

Originally Posted by allnameswereout View Post
Speaking of the virtual keyboard. Have you tried the Python + QEdje virtual keyboard? The focused key pops up, and its not selected until the user leaves the finger off the touchscreen. This is also a good, usability related feature. The designer can assume the user approaches the key the user wishes to tap, but not necessarily accurately. Hence, this is a good solution for this problem. Here is another demo, showing QEdje + QZion (by INdT developer). This shows even more the powerful possibilities of QEdje. And don't forget... Edje is fast!
And don't forget - Python is slow Doesn't matter how fast the Edje is, you're still using it from an interpreted language. Simple things will be fast. Big applications will be slow (if you're relying only on Python that is).
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benny1967 is offline benny1967
2008-10-27 , 20:34
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#65
Originally Posted by allnameswereout View Post
So, IRC is only input. RSS is only input. Browser is interactive. In that case, it makes sense the browser is full screen. But the interaction between RSS and browser is minor. So these can run full screen as well, or transparent in a sortof gadget mode (difficult).
Only IRC and mail are "input", I don't add text to the feed reader. Anyway, this isn't relevant at all because the point is that I need to switch back and forth beetween applications quickly and easily. The Maemo side bar does a great job here. Kiosk-mode applications like Canola don't.

Originally Posted by allnameswereout View Post
If you compare the way how settings are changed between MicroB and Fennec, or the way a bookmark is accessed compared between the 2, how can you not understand most people will prefer the Fennec way once they're used to it?
Bookmarks: Whats the deal? You click on a symbol, get a list and choose one entry. Same principle in both Fennec and MicroB. Except that in Fennec I guess I can't group bookmarks in folders, can't rename them, delete them... not so good. (And, as I think of it: The bookmarks-symbol can be made always visible in MicroB, but not in Fennec.)
Settings: Clear menus in MicoB, somewhat ambiguous symbols in Fennec. Still, you always tap on a hotspot to activate the menu and - oh, no, wait a minute! In Fennec, you need to scroll past the edge of the page first. Very intuitive.

Over-all, I think MicroB's UI is superior to Fennec because it gets you where you want quickly and by using well-established patterns people are used to. Fennec might look sexy, but: Try to go back more than one page. Scroll right beyond page, hit "back", scroll right beyond page again, hit "back", scroll right beyond page yet again, hit "back", .... What the heck is all this scrolling around good for? (Except getting you used to the fact that all the controls are out there beyond the internet, which is not intuitive!) - In MicroB, you see the "back"-button, you hit it three times and that's it. Good user interface. Clean and simple.

Originally Posted by allnameswereout View Post
If I want to not harass other people with my sound, I simply put it off.
That's what I access the volume control for! And then I put it back on when the people are gone.
Last edited by benny1967; 2008-10-27 at 20:46.
 

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tso is offline tso
2008-10-27 , 21:24
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#66
the only issue i have with microb bookmarks is the way one scrolls the menu...

but then its a issue with the finger-friendly menus in general.

i suggested (bug reported) a page-style "scroll" to help with the lengthy wait, but i dont think anything will come of it...
 
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benny1967 is offline benny1967
2008-10-27 , 21:33
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#67
Originally Posted by tso View Post
the only issue i have with microb bookmarks is the way one scrolls the menu...
but then its a issue with the finger-friendly menus in general.
you're talking about the bookmarks you get when you press the browser icon from the home screen, right? i never use them for this very reason. i only use the small ones that come up when you press the icon to the left of the URL-bar. there's no scrolling involved because of the font-size. i organize them in folders so they don't take more space than available.
 
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tso is offline tso
2008-10-27 , 21:35
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#68
Originally Posted by benny1967 View Post
you're talking about the bookmarks you get when you press the browser icon from the home screen, right? i never use them for this very reason. i only use the small ones that come up when you press the icon to the left of the URL-bar. there's no scrolling involved because of the font-size. i organize them in folders so they don't take more space than available.
you dont have the number of bookmarks that i have on that menu then

still, i use a subset of them on regular basis, so after i found that javascript homepage someone made that shows my last used bookmarks, i only tuch the microb bookmark menu to reach the homepage
 
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benny1967 is offline benny1967
2008-10-27 , 21:38
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#69
Originally Posted by tso View Post
you dont have the number of bookmarks that i have on that menu then
heeeyyy.... how many inches is yours?
 
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tso is offline tso
2008-10-27 , 21:40
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#70
Originally Posted by benny1967 View Post
heeeyyy.... how many inches is yours?
about a full screen height, with scroll arrows

i cant be bothered enough to attempt to sort them all into folders...
 
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