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	daperl	2008-11-02 , 21:53
	Posts: 2,427 \| Thanked: 2,986 times \| Joined on Dec 2007	#201

Originally Posted by allnameswereout

Netbooks are getting cheaper and cheaper. Touchscreen-based devices (using e.g. Linux) are getting more popular as well. So, innovate by differentiating, or die.

Want to stay niche? Cater to a few nerds...

Want to grow and stay alive? Adapt more to the wishes of the masses. This means a user-friendlier, more usable design. It includes finger-based touchscreen, it includes HS*PA, and it includes some proprietary software. Its possible you don't like some of these changes. You can hack around many of the software parts because its open source (chances are the device is by default aimed to be user friendly but can be heavily modified) or if you don't like that it comes with HS*PA chip you can go buy a Pandora.

I have the same 2 customers at all times: Barbie and Urkel. They're equally important, so please stop hating.

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	benny1967	2008-11-02 , 21:57
	Posts: 3,790 \| Thanked: 5,718 times \| Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria	#202

Originally Posted by qgil

I might be wrong, but if you dislike the finger friendly Hildon (open source) and the RSS Feed Applet (open source) you only have to patch/fork those components or come up with alternatives to your taste...

I can't code. I could learn it, but I'm lazy and prefer to just pay... Pay the company that gives me what I want. (Or, to be more precise: That offers the best compromise.) Boring consumer attitude, I know.

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	tso	2008-11-02 , 22:04
	Posts: 4,783 \| Thanked: 1,253 times \| Joined on Aug 2007 @ norway	#203

Originally Posted by lcuk

agreed in a way, but that in car usage case is representative of issues all over.
I cannot shutoff my network at night when i'm going to bed, or alter the brightness so i can start reading without getting out the stylus.

fat fingers? i just hit the power button, down ones on the dpad, then center dpad (offline mode). then its power button and center dpad (lock screen) before i but the N800 down.

i guess its a bit harder on the N810 tho as one have to extend the keyboard to get at the dpad...

want to go back online? fire up whatever i want to use (browser, mail, rss for example), hit refresh or select page i want to go to, hit center dpad on the message that pops up, select network in dialog (thanks for not fixing that one, nokia!).

and even then im perfectly able to use the nail on my index finger as stylus for most ui tasks where the thumb or full finger would be to large.

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	tso	2008-11-02 , 22:08
	Posts: 4,783 \| Thanked: 1,253 times \| Joined on Aug 2007 @ norway	#204

Originally Posted by allnameswereout

Here, it is legal to polish your nails while driving. It is legal do do your hair while driving. It is legal to eat while driving. It is legal to play with the radio in your car. It is legal to use Carman while driving. Its illegal to use a phone non-hands free though, and if the cops see a phone-like device in your hand they pull you over and check your caller history.

err, even tho its legal, does not mean its smart...

its starting to seriously sound as if some people are replacing religious texts with law texts, in that both should be the complete guide to how to live ones life.

and here i thought humans where equipped with something called a brain...

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	lcuk	2008-11-02 , 22:12
	Posts: 1,635 \| Thanked: 1,816 times \| Joined on Apr 2008 @ Manchester, England	#205

Originally Posted by tso

fat fingers? i just hit the power button, down ones on the dpad, then center dpad (offline mode). then its power button and center dpad (lock screen) before i but the N800 down.

Just?

i guess its a bit harder on the N810 tho as one have to extend the keyboard to get at the dpad...

more like annoying for both.
My reset button is behind the screen.
Whether I have to reach for a stylus or press a power button, the effect is the same.

The ACTIONS of the current wireless configuration applet are perfect.
Its the UI to open it that I don't like.

want to go back online? fire up whatever i want to use (browser, mail, rss for example), hit refresh or select page i want to go to, hit center dpad on the message that pops up, select network in dialog (thanks for not fixing that one, nokia!).

I mainly use SSH with my machine (i do all on device compilation) going online is simply that - making the device accessible to the network.
I shouldn't have to reach round the back just for that, again the network configuration applet works its just not easily accessible.

and even then im perfectly able to use the nail on my index finger as stylus for most ui tasks where the thumb or full finger would be to large.

You don't bite your nails like me.

I use my tablet all the time, and I have a great experience with it but then when I need to do silly things it frustrates me.

It doesn't matter anyway, i've started building myself a brightness applet inside liqbase

__________________
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like what i say? hit the Thanks, thanks!
twitter.com/lcuk

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	allnameswereout	2008-11-02 , 22:15
	Posts: 3,397 \| Thanked: 1,212 times \| Joined on Jul 2008 @ Netherlands	#206

Well, I don't know about Norway, but here you get stuck for long time during traffic while commuting to work. While being stuck people read entire papers. They work on laptops. They put on make up.

And, in Amsterdam including the ring motorway around Amsterdam (A10) you actually have WiMAX coverage. So if I were living near Amsterdam and commuting to Amsterdam I would for sure sign up for 15 EUR a month WiMAX. And I would for sure do all kind of things in my car whilst 'driving'. And according to your pathetic defintion of 'smart' I'd be stupid. Heck, even someone who is phoning non-hands-free while in traffic jam can get a fine, but is it really not safe?

Smart people can do unbelievably stupid things. Law is not always justice either. What happened to responsibility? Sometimes its smart to drive less hard than the maximum speed allowed, sometimes its smart to drive through a red light.

Originally Posted by lcuk

how about simple user choice.
Even microsoft have a list for preferred applications.

That is what I had in mind. I had in mind some kind of keybind (or sensor

) which changes between stylus and finger mode, using some simple gconf2 settings.

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Last edited by allnameswereout; 2008-11-02 at 22:17.

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SD69	2008-11-02 , 22:20
Posts: 1,513 \| Thanked: 2,248 times \| Joined on Mar 2006 @ US	#207

Originally Posted by daperl

Unless you're doing it wrong, the cost diminishes quickly over time. It can almost be thought of as a one time cost. Anyway, the onus is on ragnar who said, "It is not possible as a system-wide issue to design UI's for all the applications that would be 'optimal' for both stylus and the finger at the same time..."

And since I responded to ragnar's generalization, I will also respond to ragnar's specifics.

I also find Ragner too dismissive and I am not convinced that it can't be done, especially if we are just talking about the basic stylus vs. finger differences - icon sizes, etc.

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	lcuk	2008-11-02 , 22:22
	Posts: 1,635 \| Thanked: 1,816 times \| Joined on Apr 2008 @ Manchester, England	#208

SD69,
"icon sizes, etc" are what got us into this trouble now.

__________________
liqbase sketching the future.
like what i say? hit the Thanks, thanks!
twitter.com/lcuk

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SD69	2008-11-02 , 22:25
Posts: 1,513 \| Thanked: 2,248 times \| Joined on Mar 2006 @ US	#209

Originally Posted by allnameswereout

That is what I had in mind. I had in mind some kind of keybind (or sensor ) which changes between stylus and finger mode, using some simple gconf2 settings.

Look at 7710 - switch view key, pp. 12-13

http://nds1.nokia.com/phones/files/g...7710_UG_en.pdf

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	benny1967	2008-11-02 , 22:25
	Posts: 3,790 \| Thanked: 5,718 times \| Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria	#210

Originally Posted by allnameswereout

Netbooks are getting cheaper and cheaper. Touchscreen-based devices (using e.g. Linux) are getting more popular as well. So, innovate by differentiating, or die.

Right. However, copying a competitors style du jour is hardly a way to "innovate by differentiating".

Originally Posted by allnameswereout

Want to stay niche? Cater to a few nerds...

What's wrong with niches? Somebody has to sell things to people who are not content with mass market products. I mean... Ferrari is a niche product, isn't it? Should they become more like Toyota and VW?
(Oh, and thanks for implying I'm a nerd.)

Originally Posted by allnameswereout

Want to grow and stay alive? Adapt more to the wishes of the masses. This means a user-friendlier, more usable design. It includes finger-based touchscreen,

citation needed

Originally Posted by allnameswereout

it includes HS*PA,

citation needed

Originally Posted by allnameswereout

and it includes some proprietary software.

citation needed

Originally Posted by allnameswereout

Its possible you don't like some of these changes. You can hack around many of the software parts because its open source (chances are the device is by default aimed to be user friendly but can be heavily modified) or if you don't like that it comes with HS*PA chip you can go buy a Pandora.

.. Pandora or Atom-based MID, one of those nice netbooks, ... whatever. There are companies who are not afraid of "catering a few nerds" as long as these "few nerds" pay enough. Obviously they do.