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	Texrat	2009-01-10 , 03:58
	Posts: 11,700 \| Thanked: 10,045 times \| Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA	#121

The return rate does not have to be equal to the sell rate.

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namtastic	2009-01-10 , 05:36
Posts: 169 \| Thanked: 38 times \| Joined on Jul 2007 @ Brooklyn, NY	#122

Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles

This is Google's fault, not Nokia's, not failing to implement their own protocol.[...]MPlayer isn't suitable for official support.

Just examples. My point was have these OS releases really been "oh wow" updates? Did they really get you talking to non-owners about the device again? Or excited about using your tablet in a new way? It's Nokia's OS and it's their updates that lead and enable the community to do great things with their devices, and they've been taking a slow, deliberate and conservative approach that they've been called out on many times.

Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles

Why is it not suitable for these improvements to come from the community? Part of Nokia's goal with this platform is to foster a strong community, so when that community outpaces Nokia in certain areas, it smells to me like success, and not the failure so many people want to make it out to be.

Because it's not sold as a pocket Linux computer, but as an "internet experience." I bought my first tablet because of Nokia's mobile expertise, and because it running Linux meant new and interesting apps would be plentiful. But I did expect *some* leadership in app design in the vein of S60 projects like Widsets, Share Online, Nokia Search or Podcasting from Nokia but instead got a beta of Video Center that seems to have been abandoned.

Ultimately, It's the core experience -- an 800px wide "full" web browser with Flash -- that keeps me using it, but honestly that core experience hasn't grown much since November 2005. And that core experience is owned by Nokia and theirs to change.

Things will improve for the community with Mer, but that doesn't change my response -- that looking back it was the software, not the hardware, for me. I'm glad Nokia is starting to get this right now, but yeah, it does still leave us with a lot more waiting.

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	GeneralAntilles	2009-01-10 , 05:45
	Posts: 5,478 \| Thanked: 5,222 times \| Joined on Jan 2006 @ St. Petersburg, FL	#123

Originally Posted by namtastic

Because it's not sold as a pocket Linux computer, but as an "internet experience." I bought my first tablet because of Nokia's mobile expertise, and because it running Linux meant new and interesting apps would be plentiful. But I did expect *some* leadership in app design in the vein of S60 projects like Widsets, Share Online, Nokia Search or Podcasting from Nokia but instead got a beta of Video Center that seems to have been abandoned.

OK, so you expected certain things from Nokia. That's fine, but when those things come from the community, they don't come encumbered by Nokia, which makes them many times more desirable to users. Personally, I'd rather see Nokia do what it can to enable community efforts and build a strong platform for the efforts to rest upon, rather than wasting time implementing every little thing everybody thinks they should bundle by default.

Originally Posted by namtastic

Ultimately, It's the core experience -- an 800px wide "full" web browser with Flash -- that keeps me using it, but honestly that core experience hasn't grown much since November 2005. And that core experience is owned by Nokia and theirs to change.

Oh, pish, did you use OS2005? . . . I did, Opera on the 770 was atrocious.

Originally Posted by namtastic

Things will improve for the community with Mer . . .

Yes, leveraging Nokia's continued efforts.

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	luca	2009-01-10 , 13:53
	Posts: 1,137 \| Thanked: 402 times \| Joined on Sep 2007 @ Catalunya	#124

Originally Posted by lma

Then again, most pre-installed Linux distros on netbooks I've seen deserve to be returned :-|

True, but you can install a saner distro (my wife's aspire one is happily running mandriva now, and that was a couple hours effort).
That's not so easy with the tablet, partly for the different processor (that reduces the set of distributions available if you don't want to cross-compile everything yourself), but partly for the closed hardware (though that is slowly and partly changing).

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namtastic	2009-01-10 , 16:08
Posts: 169 \| Thanked: 38 times \| Joined on Jul 2007 @ Brooklyn, NY	#125

Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles

Oh, pish, did you use OS2005? . . . I did, Opera on the 770 was atrocious.

No, admittedly I came in on the tablets at OS2006. But looking at this screenshot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Maemo_desktop.jpg) and at this Nokia copy from the Wayback Machine (http://bit.ly/YF1k) I still say the core experience hasn't changed much. It's performance has, by God, yes. Not trying to say that's good *or* bad, just pointing it out. (See my original point.)

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luso	2009-01-10 , 16:36
Posts: 132 \| Thanked: 30 times \| Joined on May 2007 @ Portugal	#126

For almost 2 year I have been reading and participating in this forum. In the beginning, most messages had a positive feedback, and most of us were strong supporters of Nxxx/Maemo. However, I noticed that since last summer, this "feeling" is detriorating (this chain is a clear example). I guess that this is a sign of the frustration many of us had since we realize that the N900 never becomes reality. The dynamics that the new products and software releases that kept us ignited is dying away, and many of us is either becoming very critical or looking elsewhere.

After all the fuss last summer regarding the new N900, we are left empty handed. All the new releases, they either fix some bugs or introduce minor improvements. Nothing really important to keep us looking forward to.

Lets see where this will lead us.

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	sachin007	2009-01-10 , 16:56
	Posts: 2,041 \| Thanked: 1,066 times \| Joined on Mar 2006 @ Houston	#127

I think nokia should at least release pictures & specs of the hardware just like the n97 just to maintain interest.

I hope they release the n900 before may end, otherwise interest will dwindle steadily and if some other manufacturer comes early then them... especially an apple tablet (even if they announce it) it is going to be very hard

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	allnameswereout	2009-01-10 , 17:20
	Posts: 3,397 \| Thanked: 1,212 times \| Joined on Jul 2008 @ Netherlands	#128

Originally Posted by lma

In relative terms? Asus say that the return rate is similar, so if the above figure is correct it means they sell 5 times as many Linux eees as XP ones.

It means the EEe running Linux are returned 5 times as often as the ones running XP.

It is a statistic, and I haven't provided the source. Now I can't find the source... duh. Maybe I'm confused with OLPC. What I did find was the following. The CEO of Asus says the return rates are similar.

(Microsoft got caught with their hands in their hair on this one. They never anticipated Vista for this purpose. Now they're working on this with Windows 7. This version for EEe comes end 2009.)

Originally Posted by luso

I guess that this is a sign of the frustration many of us had since we realize that the N900 never becomes reality. The dynamics that the new products and software releases that kept us ignited is dying away, and many of us is either becoming very critical or looking elsewhere.

Not for me, but I keep my options open. For example, I'm interested in the Nokia N97.

After all the fuss last summer regarding the new N900, we are left empty handed. All the new releases, they either fix some bugs or introduce minor improvements. Nothing really important to keep us looking forward to.

I'm not with empty hands at all. I see Nokia investing more and more in Maemo and the internet tablet. A lot has become clear during summer, and every now and then more is clear.

The release of a new tablet (or tablet-like) device with Maemo, hackable, is eminent as far as I'm concerned.

Some people don't like the proprietary hardware components, but the way I see it 1) this is a bit in Nokia's advantage 2) Nokia is collaborating to get the sources open.

Then you might not like a HS*PA or camera addon on the device, but without such, it does not compete enough with smartphone products and features...

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luso	2009-01-10 , 17:35
Posts: 132 \| Thanked: 30 times \| Joined on May 2007 @ Portugal	#129

Originally Posted by allnameswereout

Not for me, but I keep my options open. For example, I'm interested in the Nokia N97.

Me too, but I see an huge overlap between N97 and a N900.
At least from the users point of view (functionality). Unless the N900 has a much larger screen than the N97...

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	Texrat	2009-01-10 , 18:11
	Posts: 11,700 \| Thanked: 10,045 times \| Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA	#130

Originally Posted by luso

For almost 2 year I have been reading and participating in this forum. In the beginning, most messages had a positive feedback, and most of us were strong supporters of Nxxx/Maemo. However, I noticed that since last summer, this "feeling" is detriorating (this chain is a clear example).

I agree.

The problem as I see it is a combination of mistakes on Nokia's part vis-a-vis product development and release (IMO) combined with a lack of strategy on community software development.

We can't do much about Nokia's irregular schedule and poor choices (I still think it was a HUGE error not to have released a newer N800 iteration by now). And the best we can do on the official software front is identify and report on bugs (which this community does to a great extent).

But for reasons I still cannot put together we have not yet managed to create a cohesive community of developers. I believe Nokia has come up short there, too, in not providing the proper level of leadership (it's close, but not quite there). However, there is no real reason that a 100% community-led effort could not also be achieved.

There should always be solo software efforts IMO and I will not take anything away from the excellent work done by "coding cowboys". But as I and others have often noted, there is too much overlap and too many gaps between various projects. The solution is managment, although I realize many Linux coders shy away from what they perceive as restrictive bureaucratic hierarchies... so clear goals and communications are necessary.

I am hopeful that the council is one step toward solving the scattered software issue, because that's a BIG one. If we can build and sustain a continual flow of apps then many criticisms vanish. But it all comes down to leadership of one form or another. Without it we are individuals with isolated goals.

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Last edited by Texrat; 2009-01-10 at 18:42.