Kate Alhola's Maemo Presentation - Page 14 - maemo.org

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	Bundyo	2009-04-13 , 21:28
	Posts: 4,708 \| Thanked: 4,649 times \| Joined on Oct 2007 @ Bulgaria	#131

It fakes one only for desktop applets.

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	GeneralAntilles	2009-04-13 , 21:46
	Posts: 5,478 \| Thanked: 5,222 times \| Joined on Jan 2006 @ St. Petersburg, FL	#132

Originally Posted by daperl

Fremantle will not have a stylus keyboard

RX-51 will be OMAP3 based and have a resistive touchscreen that is at least 800x480

Fremantle will have a compositing window manager

As far as I've been able to tell (and I've been over almost all of the available information) these three things are correct. Items 1 and 3 are certain, item 3 is almost certain.

Originally Posted by daperl

If all those things are correct, it will be very likey that some form of optionally semi-transparent stylus keyboard could be integrated into the platform.

Good, then get to hacking.

Originally Posted by daperl

If there will be no resistive screen, I can turn my thoughts elsewhere.

Based on everything I know, the likelihood of having capacitive touchscreens in the next generation of tablets is slim to none (absolute certainty is an impossibility here).

Originally Posted by daperl

I don't think it's too much to ask to know this simple little thing in advance. I actually can, and sometimes do, plan ahead.

I'm fairly certain you'll have the information you need by the time the beta rolls around. Which, honestly, is probably the first stage at which you'd likely want start working on a stylus keyboard.

Really, though, anything you put together can certainly be used in Mer, so why not start today?

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	daperl	2009-04-13 , 21:51
	Posts: 2,427 \| Thanked: 2,986 times \| Joined on Dec 2007	#133

Originally Posted by GeraldKo

Sounds like practically everything is a compositing window manager these days, from my ignorant reading of the Wikipedia article. Isn't the current Maemo a compositing window manager, too?

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong or inaccurate, but I'm gonna give it a shot anyway.

Maemo's window manager, Matchbox, is not a compositing window manager, but you can still play low-level bixbuf transparency games because GTK has pixbuf composite functions (alpha channel and opacity support). Notice when you move the home applets around that they are opaque till you place them. The application framework makes them transparent, not the window manager.

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Last edited by daperl; 2009-04-13 at 22:23.

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	Bundyo	2009-04-13 , 22:19
	Posts: 4,708 \| Thanked: 4,649 times \| Joined on Oct 2007 @ Bulgaria	#134

Just try to make a window transparent

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	daperl	2009-04-14 , 01:06
	Posts: 2,427 \| Thanked: 2,986 times \| Joined on Dec 2007	#135

Originally Posted by Bundyo

Just try to make a window transparent

Well, I think I see what they're doing. They must be keeping a pixbuf moving window that they're updating first thing on move events; the windows move slow and the ghosting seems a bit heavy. My hack below shows a white transparency over the screen just to the left of the dialog. So, I know I'm not far off. Also, they must be using a shape bitmap mask for the non-rectangular applets, which most likely is supported by the X server. Maybe I'll play more later; I haven't done my taxes yet.

Code:

#! /usr/bin/env python

import gtk

class awindow(gtk.Window):
    def __init__(s):
        gtk.Window.__init__(s)
        s.set_type_hint(gtk.gdk.WINDOW_TYPE_HINT_DIALOG)
        s.connect('destroy', gtk.main_quit)
        #rw = s.get_root_window()
        rw = gtk.gdk.get_default_root_window()
        pbd = gtk.gdk.Pixbuf(gtk.gdk.COLORSPACE_RGB, True, 8, 80, 80)
        pbt = gtk.gdk.Pixbuf(gtk.gdk.COLORSPACE_RGB, True, 8, 80, 80)
        pbt.fill(0xffffffff)
        pb = pbd.get_from_drawable(rw, rw.get_colormap(), 360, 180, 0, 0, 80, 80)
        pbt.composite(pb, 0, 0, 80, 80, 0, 0, 1.0, 1.0, gtk.gdk.INTERP_NEAREST, 150)
        b = gtk.Button('Press Me')
        b.connect('clicked', s.on_clicked)
        s.i = gtk.image_new_from_pixbuf(pb)
        vb = gtk.VBox(False, 0)
        vb.add(s.i)
        vb.add(b)
        s.add(vb)
        s.show_all()

    def on_clicked(s, b):
        print 'inside'
        #rw = s.get_root_window()
        rw = gtk.gdk.get_default_root_window()
        pbd = gtk.gdk.Pixbuf(gtk.gdk.COLORSPACE_RGB, True, 8, 80, 80)
        pbt = gtk.gdk.Pixbuf(gtk.gdk.COLORSPACE_RGB, True, 8, 80, 80)
        pbt.fill(0xffffffff)
        x, y = s.window.get_origin()
        a = s.i.get_allocation()
        print 'x y ax ay',x,y,a.x,a.y
        sx = x + a.x
        sy = y + a.y
        pb = pbd.get_from_drawable(rw, rw.get_colormap(), sx-90, sy, 0, 0, 80, 80)
        pbt.composite(pb, 0, 0, 80, 80, 0, 0, 1.0, 1.0, gtk.gdk.INTERP_NEAREST, 150)
        s.i.set_from_pixbuf(pb)
        s.show_all()

if __name__ == "__main__":
    w = awindow()
    gtk.main()

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Bundyo

TheTree	2009-04-14 , 03:52
Posts: 68 \| Thanked: 63 times \| Joined on Sep 2008	#136

It seems as though there are two sides to the stylus/finger debate: Those who want a finger-optimized UI for convenience and those who want a stylus-based UI for data density and desktop similarities. And then someone mentioned sticking a trackpad on one of these things...

I say we already have a trackpad, it just isn't used as such - usually.

Pardon me while I go on a tangent here. Wacom Pen tablets have this interesting feature: they can be used in pen mode or mouse mode. In mouse mode, it acts like a normal computer mouse. Cursor movement is relative. In pen mode, cursor movement is absolute. That is, each point on the tablet refers to a specific point on the screen.

Touch screens are almost always absolute. Tap on the screen somewhere and a click is registered there. However, there are exceptions, including at least one on the Internet Tablets: Bluemaemo. Bluemaemo can be used to control your Windows or Linux desktop with the touchscreen on your tablet acting like a normal trackpad.

Why not allow people to use the touchscreen as a trackpad for the tablet itself? Most apps can be easily finger optimized and used in a normal, absolute mode. But for data-dense apps like gnumeric, the touchscreen could be switched into a relative cursor movement mode, with a visible cursor.

Perhaps someone with far superior programming knowledge than me could hack something llike this up for Diablo.

And we now return to your regularly scheduled program.

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	qgil	2009-04-14 , 07:46
	Posts: 3,105 \| Thanked: 11,088 times \| Joined on Jul 2007 @ Mountain View (CA, USA)	#137

Originally Posted by daperl

Fremantle will not have a stylus keyboard

RX-51 will be OMAP3 based and have a resistive touchscreen that is at least 800x480

Fremantle will have a compositing window manager

Alright, these are questions based on what Maemo 5 does and supports. They are useful for your developer plans and this is why... we already answered them.

Developers interested in Fremantle can watch the Fremantle roadmap and the maemo.org announcements. Kate's presentation basically expands on the information published there.

Maemo 5 will support OMAP3 and not OMAP2. This was announced between OSiM World (September 2008) and the first pre-alpha.

With the pre-alpha 2 we announced the support to Fremantle Stars projects like liqbase, NumptyPhysics and OSM2Go. Devices compatible with Maemo have been using resistive screens and no changes have been announced in this respect. Considering the implications a move to a capacitive screen would imply for Maemo developers, we would have said something about it while asking application developers to try the alpha SDK.

The alpha SDK announcement mentioned WVGA resolution and SDK itself offers a resolution of 800x480, which is the same Maemo has used since day 1.

Together twith the alpha release we published the Overview of Maemo 5 UI where you can quote:

"Removal of stylus keyboard"

"The hildon-desktop process contains a compositing window manager"

If all those things are correct, it will be very likey that some
form of optionally semi-transparent stylus keyboard could be integrated into the platform. Then this would lead to details about such a keyboard and if it could be ready for product launch. To be fair, I haven't looked that deeply into the Alpha SDK's. But you can bet your a*s I'll be all over the Beta.

http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/free/h/ is a good starting point for you. Hildon Input Method is as open as before.

If there will be no resistive screen, I can turn my thoughts elsewhere.

I don't think it's too much to ask to know this simple little thing in advance. I actually can, and sometimes do, plan ahead.

Understood, and this is why we are doing all these early announcements, pre-releases and presentations.

I don't think it's too much to ask developers to follow the maemo.org announcements.

Is the easiest way to plan ahead. Kate and also Kimmo Hämälainen have been providing further details in the maemo-developers list every time someone asked. Feel free going there and asking more.

Note that I found your questions here almost as a coincidence, after giving up on following the deviated (and even off-topic?) debate that has taken a good dozen of pages in this thread.

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	Un27Pee	2009-04-14 , 09:03
	Posts: 259 \| Thanked: 59 times \| Joined on Feb 2008	#138

Originally Posted by Bundyo

File chooser - you can see only three items at a time. Maybe the thumb usability of it is high, but it is not very usable...

realy hope that the final release will be more user friendly.

is there any known fact or hint about ext memory two slot like the 800 or one like the 810?

Last edited by Un27Pee; 2009-04-14 at 09:25.

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	daperl	2009-04-14 , 12:13
	Posts: 2,427 \| Thanked: 2,986 times \| Joined on Dec 2007	#139

Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles

Good, then get to hacking.

As far as I'm concerned, Nokia and their apologists have taken themselves out of the stylus keyboard conversation. But I'm sure someone will let you know if they need any "input."

Really, though, anything you put together can certainly be used in Mer, so why not start today?

There are so many answers (excuses) for this question. But it was such a great setup for a terrible pun that I just couldn't resist...

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	daperl	2009-04-14 , 12:23
	Posts: 2,427 \| Thanked: 2,986 times \| Joined on Dec 2007	#140

Originally Posted by qgil

Alright, these are questions based on what Maemo 5 does and supports. They are useful for your developer plans and this is why... we already answered them.

You're right. I'm a very slow learner. It finally got through my thick skull. Thanks.

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