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Texrat is offline Texrat
2009-04-15 , 16:21
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#71
Nope. You are still wrong. I will try to find the article that describes the situation.
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2009-04-15 , 16:31
Posts: 610 | Thanked: 391 times | Joined on Feb 2006 @ DC, USA
#72
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
Nope. You are still wrong. I will try to find the article that describes the situation.
You seriously think that a company has sued a person for having a gene that the company has patented??? Seriously??? Seriously?????? In the United States, human beings are not patentable.
 
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2009-04-15 , 16:34
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#73
Originally Posted by mullf View Post
What is the incentive of spending millions of dollars to develop a new invention when a competitor can simply copy it and sell it for production cost without having to recoup the R&D investment? This is a prescription to end most high-dollar R&D.
Not at all. The general idea is that without patents, every company would provide R&D to produce incremental improvements to gain an edge in the market. Improvements would soon flow back into the commons, for others to improve upon.

Kind of like how open source works.

And without all the money being spent on lawyers, there's more to be spent on R&D.

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Roger
 
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2009-04-15 , 17:13
Posts: 11,700 | Thanked: 10,045 times | Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA
#74
Originally Posted by mullf View Post
You seriously think that a company has sued a person for having a gene that the company has patented??? Seriously??? Seriously?????? In the United States, human beings are not patentable.
That's not what I said Mullf. Calm down and read more carefully please.
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2009-04-15 , 17:47
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#75
Originally Posted by eiffel View Post
Not at all. The general idea is that without patents, every company would provide R&D to produce incremental improvements to gain an edge in the market. Improvements would soon flow back into the commons, for others to improve upon.
That occurs today. It is the big, multi-million dollar inventions (e.g. life-saving drugs) that are dis-incentivized by lack of patent protection.
 
Laughing Man is offline Laughing Man
2009-04-15 , 18:10
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#76
Originally Posted by mullf View Post
Which is one of the geniuses of the Constitution, that it provides for updating. Feel free to lobby for an amendment eliminating patents and copyrights if you want.
I have and continue doing so. Though lobbying politicans doesn't end well if you don't have deep pockets.

But they get paid for their work. Try offering them a contract saying they have to pay for all their research on their own without salary and others can use it without paying them anything for it.
Yes, they do get paid for their work. And most of the time other people can use their research without paying them for it. They just have to cite the idea and what not was originally theirs.


You think the rate of technological advance was the same then as it is now? Besides, there was not modern economy back then. And don't forget what the promise of a monetary reward played in solving the longitude problem.
Ah, but the same technological advance has lead to things like the Internet which offers now infinite way to replicate ideas and digital products. So if the argument is that times are different, then one could also just argue that times are now different again and in this day and era patents and copyrights are not needed in the form they are now. Our as my research methods professor would put it, the model has become outdated and needs to be updated or replaced.

And yes there were some monetary rewards (in the case of Gunpowder I think it was because they were seeking a formula for immortality). Changing patents and copyrights won't influence that. In fact it may increase the rate of progress since people would actually have to continue making advances and discoveries instead of sitting on the one egg they found. Again, not saying they aren't needed (see previous post, last paragraph). It just needs to be reformed.


That's only a problem in the United States. All other countries have patent rights to first inventor to file, not first inventor to invent.
I'm not familar with other countries' patent system. Only the US (I have a family member that works in the patent office but on the reviewing level). Frequently there are problems with patents being claimed when they've already been issued (the patent office is bogged down so they rarely do prior existence checks well enough).

It's nice to actually have a discussion . This rarely happens on Digg.
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SD69 is offline SD69
2009-04-15 , 18:25
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#77
Originally Posted by eiffel View Post
The general idea is that without patents, every company would provide R&D to produce incremental improvements to gain an edge in the market.
Incremental improvements can be copied as easy, if not easier, than significant advances. The theoretical edge in the market disappears as soon as the non-innovating knockoff or larger company with bigger advertising budget copies it.
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2009-04-15 , 19:24
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#78
the problem is the times, not the concepts. technology have made things easier for humans to invent and produce, yet the protection times have either stayed still or increased...
 

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mullf is offline mullf
2009-04-15 , 19:43
Posts: 610 | Thanked: 391 times | Joined on Feb 2006 @ DC, USA
#79
Originally Posted by Laughing Man View Post
Yes, they do get paid for their work. And most of the time other people can use their research without paying them for it. They just have to cite the idea and what not was originally theirs.
FYI, it is not uncommon for patents to be filed based on a scientist's or engineer's work that is about to be published/presented at a conference. Universities make big money on licensing agreements.

Originally Posted by Laughing Man View Post
(the patent office is bogged down so they rarely do prior existence checks well enough).
I don't know if "rarely" is a fair characterization. What percentage of patents actually get invalidated?


Originally Posted by Laughing Man View Post
It's nice to actually have a discussion . This rarely happens on Digg.
Debating is good clean fun.
 
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2009-04-15 , 19:49
Posts: 610 | Thanked: 391 times | Joined on Feb 2006 @ DC, USA
#80
Originally Posted by tso View Post
technology have made things easier for humans to invent and produce
I'm not sure that it true. There is more out there, so there are more directions to go in, and along with a continually increasing population, that leads to more patents per year than in the past, but that doesn't imply that it is "easier" to invent. I wonder what there is a graph showing the number of patents issued per year vs. the population for those years, to see if there are really more inventions per capita than in the past.
 
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