To talk in general terms, there is a not-too-fine difference between "the customers (as a whole) are always right" and "each customer is always right". It's a lot about seeing the bigger picture.

To take a broad analogy (don't take this too seriously), take an imaginary company, and a one that would be making cars, for a specific market. Let's say that the possible customer population in that market would be one million. And we would have this idea of replacing the steering wheel with a joystick. It's more accurate after all, and requires smaller movements. And our cars would sell a hundred copies, while the competition is selling like hotcakes.

Now, we, the car manufacturers, would be wondering what went wrong, and we would do consumer studies and benchmark against the competition. And consumers in all of our studies would say "well your joystick design is interesting, but it ultimately sucks! I want this and that and that in my car, I want a steering wheel, it's a better input mechanism". And all of our car manufacturer competitors would have also realized that.

Now, contrast that to if we would do the same consumer study with only the hundred people that would have bought this joystick car. Would the results be the same? Certainly not. Many of those customers would be furious if we would talk about throwing away our joystick controllers, since many of them are fine with it, some might have even learned the finer points and possible advantages or the joysticks. Or perhaps they would talk about "perhaps you could add the steering wheel to your next car and keep the joystick there at the side - why limit the options?"

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This - of course - has nothing to do with our current situation right now.

I think most of us get why Nokia is making the decisions they're making. But why bother with a car analogy? Why not just quote directly from Apple iPhone growth, sales and profit numbers? Treat me like a dumb f*ck all you want, but who do you think you're kidding? Just be honest. It's easy. I'll go first:

I hate the iPhone and I love the n800.

Combine these facts with Nokias lust for Apple-like phone growth and everything is explained.

What don't you think I get about that?

There's no doubt that your Maemo 5 product is going to further make the iPhone look like the toy that it is, but I'm not sure how much good that will do me. I want my joystick back.

haha, love it!

thing is Ragnar, the analogy is backwards - you're already doing the sty- i mean joystick, it's the opposition who made the change to the new fangled hot-caker!

anyway, I detect a little sarcasm with the bit I quoted - hasn't anyone else been following all this? There will be a stylus with the next gen, that's why licqbase is there, numpty etc, it's a no-branier given. The nokians are having a little wind-up and it's working.

we should be getting wound up about the front-face d-pad instead

I'll reference you to the post above about slaps in the face.

And so are we, just like you, when there is a problem (as opposed to idle speculation) that we are directly responsible for (definitely not device product design or business decisions).

As I'm trying to explain in another thread, device product design and business management have little to nothing to share with open source practices. If you want to continue this discussion please use that thread instead.

Also, there is a good deal of marketing involved. If we're making analogies, consider the CMOS chip thing. A manufacturer makes an outstanding CMOS chip for DSLRs, and uses it as marketing leverage, basically brainwashing users that a CCD chip is inherently worse/inferior to a CMOS one. Then, it doesn't matter anymore if the competition invests in CCD R&D and makes fantastic progress - the market has been already poisoned, users will demand CMOS as 'everyone knows CCD sucks'. So our competition has to go CMOS to sell (and play catch-up with the original CMOS manufacturer), regardless how well their CCD research is progressing.

Is this how you engage people into deeper discussions? Is this how you expect more professionals to go and invest more time discussing with you?

ragnar is being honest, and professional. Actually I'm surprised he still has the motivation to post in this thread.

I'm basically done in this thread. You actually want me to work on real stuff instead of discuss in the middle of idle speculation.

Rules of idle speculation: if you don't like idle speculation, don't write to thraad called "idle speculation" eh?

You and I have different definitions of "idle speculation".

Being as I started this thread: 69 posts in seven pages (forum default settings). Most of these post probably would have made it into other threads (and been arguably off-topic). I guess this thread is doing what I had hoped it would - relieve some of the off-topic posting in the other threads.

Rant-
I didn't specifically ask anyone to join this thread, so I assume that we are all participating of our own free will.
I believe (if I'm wrong feel free to correct me) that none of the folks from Nokia are in the PR department. I also suspect that none of their job descriptions require them to comment in these forums. Therefore, I *speculate* that they are commenting here of their own free will. I am sure that if they feel any particular thread or the forums in general become too biased against them or Nokia they will quit participating (much to our lose).

I also believe that anyone who owns a current tablet (770, N8x0) is entitled to express any comments (positive or negative) about those devices. I also believe that since they were willing to spend money on a tablet they are entitled to speculate (positive or negative) on the direction (in their opinion) that they see Nokia taking in regards to the tablets. If they purchase a new tablet they are certainly entitled to praise or complain as they see fit. If when the new tablets are available, I choose not to buy one, you won't see me in any threads regarding them, unless my opinion as someone who didn't purchase one is requested.

There is also a certain amount of "unfriendliness"/gruffness/elitism in these forums that in not directed against Nokia. As someone relatively new here, it is a major turn-off, however it is by no means the majority and I tend to shake my head and overlook it.
-end rant

As far as idle speculation goes, as the thread starter, I was trying to be as general as possible. By posting in the fremantle section, my intention was that the speculation would be related to the upcoming devices be it software, hardware, or marketing strategy. If anyone disagrees with this they are free to refrain from participating.

If the powers that be would prefer that this thread end, please close/lock/delete it. I can surely take that hint.