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ragnar is offline ragnar
2009-06-10 , 14:56
Posts: 631 | Thanked: 1,123 times | Joined on Sep 2005 @ Helsinki
#51
Originally Posted by fms View Post
But I hope you do agree that these are valid use cases that pretty much have to be accepted:

1. Managing files (variable number of files of variable size, including large files and directories with a lot of files)
2. Playing games (including 3D games and fast paced games with directional controls)
3. Reading books and other documents
4. Consulting maps

I am kinda concerned about three use cases appear becoming abandoned in the upcoming Fremantle device at the moment. .

Please notice that #3 and #4 basically benefit from retaining largish screen size, so they are more on the hardware side. #2 needs both physical directional controls and reasonable 3D APIs for apps (in an exclusive full-screen mode, if required by hildon-desktop specifics). #1 just needs somebody to sit down and fix that damn file manager, and the file selector as well. Preferably, this has to be some guy who uses file managers and knows what they should look like.
1) Yes, to some extent. Ultimately we are perhaps more focusing on users dumping files on the devices and then accessing them through Tracker than having to "go on managing" them all the time. I don't think that managing is a satisfying or fulfilling use case, consuming them is. Fire and forget is a much better approach, imho. And there's also the PC side there. Explorer or Finder is a really good management UI, so leveraging that when possible isn't a bad thing.
2) Yes, to some extent. No, it's not a PSP or a Nintendo DS. Just the hardware doesn't make something a good gaming device (just ask the Gizmondo guys, for instance.

It's a chicken and egg -problem: I personally don't know of a massive library of great games available for the N810. From my personal viewpoint I think that on touch screen devices the best games are utilizing the touch screen. Playing Tux (or what was the penguin game) on the Nokia 770 was quite painful with its hardware rocker.
3) Certainly.
4) Certainly.
 
fms is offline fms
2009-06-10 , 15:14
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#52
Originally Posted by ragnar View Post
1) Yes, to some extent. Ultimately we are perhaps more focusing on users dumping files on the devices and then accessing them through Tracker than having to "go on managing" them all the time. I don't think that managing is a satisfying or fulfilling use case, consuming them is.
That is obviously a misconception. It is almost like you want your users to eat food but do not want them to prepare it. This may work for iPhone, with its iTunes store and an audience of users willing to put up with whatever Apple inflicts on them. This is not going to work for Maemo, starting with the fact that Nokia does not provide anything comparable to iTunes in functionality and ending with the Maemo user base not willing to put up with the lack of control of their data. This means that users will manage their own media files and you have to address this activity properly.

2) Yes, to some extent. No, it's not a PSP or a Nintendo DS. Just the hardware doesn't make something a good gaming device (just ask the Gizmondo guys, for instance.
Ok, not talking about specialized gaming devices here. But let us take pretty modest games available on Nokia devices via NGage. A lot of them (if not most) require directional controls and OpenGL ES APIs to be usable. I hope we both agree that having at least this kind of games play is well within the intended use for Maemo?

It's a chicken and egg -problem: I personally don't know of a massive library of great games available for the N810.
Oh, I do
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sachin007 is offline sachin007
2009-06-10 , 15:15
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#53
Originally Posted by ragnar View Post
1) Yes, to some extent. Ultimately we are perhaps more focusing on users dumping files on the devices and then accessing them through Tracker than having to "go on managing" them all the time. I don't think that managing is a satisfying or fulfilling use case, consuming them is. Fire and forget is a much better approach, imho. And there's also the PC side there. Explorer or Finder is a really good management UI, so leveraging that when possible isn't a bad thing.
2) Yes, to some extent. No, it's not a PSP or a Nintendo DS. Just the hardware doesn't make something a good gaming device (just ask the Gizmondo guys, for instance.

It's a chicken and egg -problem: I personally don't know of a massive library of great games available for the N810. From my personal viewpoint I think that on touch screen devices the best games are utilizing the touch screen. Playing Tux (or what was the penguin game) on the Nokia 770 was quite painful with its hardware rocker.
3) Certainly.
4) Certainly.
The shift from tablets to iclones has been complete.

All the things that made the tablet series laptop replacements are being left out. I have no hope left for any nokia tablets. It is time to jump ship.... even though it really hurts me.
 
fms is offline fms
2009-06-10 , 15:22
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#54
Originally Posted by sachin007 View Post
The shift from tablets to iclones has been complete. All the things that made the tablet series laptop replacements are being left out. I have no hope left for any nokia tablets. It is time to jump ship.... even though it really hurts me.
Rather than jump ship, I would suggest to continue explaining to Nokia marketing guys, in polite logical terms, just what we want from Maemo devices as users. My hope is that the Maemo marketing team will see the light and make those few widely requested changes to get things back on track. After all, there is just a few (3-4) changes people request and all of them (except for the screen size, I guess) can be satisfied rather cheaply.
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Bobbe is offline Bobbe
2009-06-10 , 15:29
Posts: 119 | Thanked: 79 times | Joined on May 2009 @ Brasilia, Brazil
#55
Originally Posted by sachin007 View Post
The shift from tablets to iclones has been complete.

All the things that made the tablet series laptop replacements are being left out. I have no hope left for any nokia tablets. It is time to jump ship.... even though it really hurts me.
Er... why? Maybe I'm missing something, but we are here discussing SOME user cases the next tablet / OS should focus on. Nobody is restricting usability scenarios to those cases. (Right?)

But I do wonder, what are we leaving out here? This is not a comprehensive list, but should it be?

If we want to discuss other things that the Fremantle release should address in order to keep it a umpc, what should those be? (I ask genuinely, no snide remark intended). MS Office filetype support is an issue for sure, let's face it, Google Docs doesn't cut it, but I don't think that what the Nokia guys are saying here is that they won't focus on it. Unless I missed something.

But then again, this may be the subject for another thread. Aren't we talking at cross purposes here?
 

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sachin007 is offline sachin007
2009-06-10 , 15:31
Posts: 2,041 | Thanked: 1,066 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ Houston
#56
Originally Posted by fms View Post
Rather than jump ship, I would suggest to continue explaining to Nokia marketing guys, in polite logical terms, just what we want from Maemo devices as users. My hope is that the Maemo marketing team will see the light and make those few widely requested changes to get things back on track. After all, there is just a few (3-4) changes people request and all of them (except for the screen size, I guess) can be satisfied rather cheaply.
I guess it is better to do it now than later being told that "Multiple apps drain battery and cpu.. so we are limiting the no. of open apps at a time to 1. After all this is a mobile device and we cant satisfy some very rare use case scenario."
 
TA-t3 is offline TA-t3
2009-06-10 , 15:32
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#57
My N800 is a small pocketable computer and that is why I am an N800 owner. It doesn't have a specific, limited use case. This is the shortest possible message I can think of, for Nokia.
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Bobbe is offline Bobbe
2009-06-10 , 15:43
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#58
Originally Posted by TA-t3 View Post
My N800 is a small pocketable computer and that is why I am an N800 owner. It doesn't have a specific, limited use case. This is the shortest possible message I can think of, for Nokia.
This is how I think of it too, but I think that is a use case, isn't it?

As a user of a small pocketable computer you have very specific needs that some users won't. And yet you persist as being a niche. And a very good one, if Nokia knows how to please you. Because the moment it delivers you a small pocketable computer experience out of the box that you're satisfied with, it will have a device ready to take over huge market niches that are currently in doubt between netbooks, umpcs and so on so forth.

So if I were Nokia, I'd be listening to you just as carefully as I would be listening to the Iphonesque-features-have-to-be-there choir.

Now try and please them both.

One of the cool things about being a mammoth as big as Nokia is that they're one of the few companies in the world who can, if they apply their resources correctly and cooperate with the community accordingly. Honestly, I've seen them doing both (Quim and Rainar are here to prove that every single day), and not doing them as well. Let's see what happens from now on.

Alea Jacta Est.

(And a sincere good luck to Nokia. A ferociously eager community like this to take on (and don't even think of not trying to understand what these guys want, it will be your doom ) and a lot of consumer minds to read on the other end at the same time. Honestly, good luck )
 

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javispedro is offline javispedro
2009-06-10 , 15:45
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#59
On the other side, the reason I chose the N810 over the Pandora and other Linux based MIDs is that, while having a full computer's power available, there was still a nice handheld GUI with instant-on (instant-resume here ) and everything I would expect from a handheld GUI (including, but not limited to, big task switching buttons, fullscreen applications, fast-launching key applications, etc.).

So there must be some balance.

Other than that you know I still believe Fremantle seems too much dumbed-down. Hope to be proven wrong, or that "the usability improvements" are really that good.
 
ragnar is offline ragnar
2009-06-10 , 15:47
Posts: 631 | Thanked: 1,123 times | Joined on Sep 2005 @ Helsinki
#60
Originally Posted by fms View Post
Rather than jump ship, I would suggest to continue explaining to Nokia marketing guys, in polite logical terms, just what we want from Maemo devices as users. My hope is that the Maemo marketing team will see the light and make those few widely requested changes to get things back on track. After all, there is just a few (3-4) changes people request and all of them (except for the screen size, I guess) can be satisfied rather cheaply.
Sorry for possibly repeating stuff, but could you list those changes once again?
 
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