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2009-08-07
, 10:53
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Posts: 1,418 |
Thanked: 1,541 times |
Joined on Feb 2008
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#192
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Originally Posted by gerbick
As I said, I have been commenting on the claim that Nokia is losing its ground in Europe. I have not been commenting on Nokia's market share in any other part of the world. Was I not clear enough?
As egocentric about my experience you're insinuating, you're just as guilty. Sorry, but I have North America and Asian experience on my side this time. China, Singapore, Japan, United States, Canada, Mexico... Nokia's dwindling. And I did not see much 5800 presence in those areas.
In fact, I saw more N95's in Asia than 5800's. But in Europe... sure. Perhaps the 5800 sold well. One continent out of many isn't exactly faith-instilling.
You'd be under heavy denial if you did not pay attention to the fact that Nokia gave up in Japan and the US a very long time ago before the iPhone was mentioned.
1. Evidence of Nokia losing ground in Europe appears to be overstated.
2. Symbian/S60 may not be slick or shiny, but it is perfectly usable, at least for me.
Any other claim you are trying to attribute to me will not stick. Scroll back and read what I wrote before commenting.
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2009-08-07
, 10:54
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Posts: 61 |
Thanked: 30 times |
Joined on Aug 2009
@ Madrid, Spain
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#193
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Originally Posted by fms
Allright Nokia fanboy, you win....
It does not matter how properly you test it, you still have no physical keyboard and limited screen estate. So Nokia lets you either see more text, with smaller keyboard, or see less text, with larger keyboard. Hey, you can also use the handwritten input, if it works for you of course
WinMo does not, most of the time.
My S60e3 phone reuses existing connections just fine, so I have no idea what they hell you are talking about.
I have never experienced this, running multiple network connected apps (web browser, Putty, Qip, Slick, Google Maps) on Nokia phones. So, my guess is that you either do not understand something or making it up.
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2009-08-07
, 11:03
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Posts: 4,384 |
Thanked: 5,524 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ ˙ǝɹǝɥʍou
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#194
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Lol..
That's a great example of someone who dances around the issues..
Don't take it personally dude, but i think that's a text book example of one
That's a great example of someone who dances around the issues..
Don't take it personally dude, but i think that's a text book example of one
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2009-08-07
, 11:17
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Posts: 1,418 |
Thanked: 1,541 times |
Joined on Feb 2008
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#195
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Originally Posted by ysss
Man, if you want me to lay fresh, steamy piles of noxious substance all around Symbian/S60 and Nokia in general, I can do it with equal ease. Let us see... Lack of user support for many phone models, meager RAM amounts not suitable for running heavy duty apps, dead slow user interface in many phones (not so much in 5800 though), application installer that screws up its own state files when used frequently, unusable keyboards in current models, the dreadful certificate scheme that achieves nothing while incoinviniencing app developers, etc. etc. But I am never going to criticize Nokia/S60 for not being Apple/iPhone or Palm/Pre like these guys in the thread appear to do. Capiche?
That's a great example of someone who dances around the issues.. Don't take it personally dude, but i think that's a text book example of one
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2009-08-07
, 11:38
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Posts: 4,384 |
Thanked: 5,524 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ ˙ǝɹǝɥʍou
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#196
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ROFL, what's wrong with making comparison with what's available in the market? For technical or practical reasons: they're in similar price range, occupy the same market space, technically comparable (well somewhat, the pre and iphone has stepped off with cortex a8), designed to do similar tasks..
When one is in the market for such device, those are the options. So what's the most natural thing to do? Compare.
Btw, can you give me a list of sites that's supposed to crash the these non-desktop browsers? I've the HTC G1 and iPhone 3GS to test. I've yet to see either of them crash opening a web page.
When one is in the market for such device, those are the options. So what's the most natural thing to do? Compare.
Btw, can you give me a list of sites that's supposed to crash the these non-desktop browsers? I've the HTC G1 and iPhone 3GS to test. I've yet to see either of them crash opening a web page.
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2009-08-07
, 11:49
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Posts: 1,418 |
Thanked: 1,541 times |
Joined on Feb 2008
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#197
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Originally Posted by ysss
The first and biggest thing that is wrong is that it has been done many times before and has become boring by now. The second, lesser thing is that all these devices are really very different in terms of experience and each has its problems. You choose the one you like based on what kind of problems you are ready to live with.
ROFL, what's wrong with making comparison with what's available in the market? For technical or practical reasons: they're in similar price range, occupy the same market space, technically comparable (well somewhat, the pre and iphone has stepped off with cortex a8), designed to do similar tasks.
When one is in the market for such device, those are the options. So what's the most natural thing to do?
Btw, can you give me a list of sites that's supposed to crash the these non-desktop browsers? I've the HTC G1 and iPhone 3GS to test. I've yet to see either of them crash opening a web page.
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2009-08-07
, 11:49
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Posts: 263 |
Thanked: 77 times |
Joined on Jan 2009
@ Sigtuna, Sweden
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#198
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Some of this is almost like in old times, when writers in Mac magazines looked down their noses at PCs, and PC magazines did not even mention Macs.
But seriously, it is really a problem of suitable ergonomics.
As I see it, a cellphone and a pocket computer want quite different ergonomic solutions.
Perhaps iphone and a couple of other touch products have found a working compromise.
I want a one-handed phone, and I want to make calls without looking at it.
An interface to the contacts database that works really well without looking has yet to be developed.
If you like me prefer some tactile feedback, buttons are preferable.
The more often you want a computer without carrying a laptop or netbook, the more unsatisfying a smartphone becomes.
A phone has to be small for one-handed use.
A pocket computer can't have enough screen real estate, and it needs a more complex input interface which easily gets in the way of efficient one-handed phone use.
So I carry a phone and a NIT.
I miss syncronising calendar and contacts between them.
And I hate carrying two gadgets, but a 4" hi-res. screen is my absolute minimum for photos and comfortable enough for e-books.
( - - three with pocket camera.)
But seriously, it is really a problem of suitable ergonomics.
As I see it, a cellphone and a pocket computer want quite different ergonomic solutions.
Perhaps iphone and a couple of other touch products have found a working compromise.
I want a one-handed phone, and I want to make calls without looking at it.
An interface to the contacts database that works really well without looking has yet to be developed.
If you like me prefer some tactile feedback, buttons are preferable.
The more often you want a computer without carrying a laptop or netbook, the more unsatisfying a smartphone becomes.
A phone has to be small for one-handed use.
A pocket computer can't have enough screen real estate, and it needs a more complex input interface which easily gets in the way of efficient one-handed phone use.
So I carry a phone and a NIT.
I miss syncronising calendar and contacts between them.
And I hate carrying two gadgets, but a 4" hi-res. screen is my absolute minimum for photos and comfortable enough for e-books.
( - - three with pocket camera.)
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2009-08-07
, 12:52
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Posts: 4,384 |
Thanked: 5,524 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ ˙ǝɹǝɥʍou
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#199
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Originally Posted by fms
It's still a relevant subject, unless you want want to live in ignorance of the competition and be 'happy' with yourself.
The first and biggest thing that is wrong is that it has been done many times before and has become boring by now. The second, lesser thing is that all these devices are really very different in terms of experience and each has its problems. You choose the one you like based on what kind of problems you are ready to live with.
The most natural thing to do is to buy a device you like, then shut up. If you've accidentally bought a device you do not like, sell it, then go to step #1.
That would require me to get one of these devices and actively try crashing it, so no, no URLs for you today. As a rule of thumb, I suggest you try sites with a lot of CSS styling and JavaScript. However different these devices are, they all use similar web engines and have similar memory specs, so abundance of CSS/JavaScript should affect them similarly.
Ok, I'm not here for a pissing contest. I thought everyone was having a fair discussion til you got pissed off and sulked.
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2009-08-07
, 13:06
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Guest |
Posts: n/a |
Thanked: 0 times |
Joined on
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#200
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Originally Posted by fms
I guess I didn't make myself clear. In each of my discussions about Nokia losing mindshare, losing ground, et al, I kept my discussion to the American market. Just until recently I expanded my talk to include places I had traveled to outside of the US.
As I said, I have been commenting on the claim that Nokia is losing its ground in Europe. I have not been commenting on Nokia's market share in any other part of the world. Was I not clear enough?
And yes... Nokia is losing mindshare. Too expensive in some areas, too lacking in others, noticeably behind in technology - perceived by end-users - and a definite slow down. And when I stated that "Nokia had no real carrier presence", it pertained to the American market.
Thus the initial comments of "egocentric" since that's the market I'm more familiar with first. Just as you are more familiar, despite my total amount of living in Europe being just under a decade, with the European market.
Well, N95 is also made by Nokia, true or false?
Not only I am free from "heavy denial" here (you are stating a well known fact), but I do not really care about this. You should direct your laments toward someone working at Nokia, preferably in their marketing department. All I ever claimed was that
1. Evidence of Nokia losing ground in Europe appears to be overstated.
2. Symbian/S60 may not be slick or shiny, but it is perfectly usable, at least for me.
Any other claim you are trying to attribute to me will not stick. Scroll back and read what I wrote before commenting.
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