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ysss is offline ysss
2009-08-15 , 15:36
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#61
Originally Posted by vvaz View Post
True. But Nokia *IS* in OpenSource business and with each iteration it is more in. With each generation there is more code opened and more transparency with development (although you could probably not notice it due to all whining here ).

Nokia apparently decided that OpenSource isn't bad for business and goes with it.

Maybe they noticed that in global scale there is enough people interested in OpenSource products that they can maintain whole line of products?

BTW - according to recent article on BBC site about Red Hat OpenSource is now about of 20% of global IT market.
Yes, they've realized that OS development isn't their core business and that there is a chance that an open sourced OS can be incubated to be used in future products. This way they can concentrate on hardware (and services?) developments and manufacturing, and hopefully the community movement can be fostered and grown to support the OS under their guidance and guardianship.

Yes, I believe the bulk of those 20% are in infrastructure (servers) and kiosks-type environment.
 
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2009-08-15 , 19:56
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#62
Take a look at this post:

http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...6&postcount=52

"Oh, and as for development platform: Nokia should take a tip from Palm. They are fresh on the stage with WebOS, and their platform made me smile. They have a Debian package tested for Ubuntu specifically (it being really popular and all). After installing, a single terminal command (as a regular user) pulls open VirtualBox with a fully functioning WebOS emulator.

Then I looked at Maemo again:
http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_4-1-2_diablo/
That site demonstrates what Nokia is doing here: They are running on some delusion that everyone who wants to do software development is willing to spend a day reading through convoluted documentation to set up an SDK so that they can maybe compile a little command line app for their tablet. They assume that developers don't like easy stuff, that everyone writes in Assembly and anything higher level was developed by evil commies to destroy our minds. Oh, and that developers don't read, so documentation is useless.

Then I looked back at Palm:
http://developer.palm.com/

Okay, which one would YOU build software with? "

Edit: This too http://developer.palm.com/index.php?...rticle&id=1772
Last edited by mrojas; 2009-08-15 at 19:59.
 

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okko is offline okko
2009-08-15 , 21:30
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#63
Originally Posted by Reggie View Post
how can we encourage more (a.k.a. average) developers to develop on the Maemo platform, how can we kick start apps development, and how can we produce a snowball effect of apps?
Simple: We need an SDK that is downloadable in one file in one .dmg and installs politely in Mac OS X (=as a single movable and removable app). It should have options for multiple projects, buttons for compiling the project(s) and running them in a virtual emulator.

At the moment developing for Maemo for anyone running OS X includes so much work before you get to the actual developing that at least I give up.
 

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gerbick
2009-08-16 , 06:49
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#64
Given the responses in this thread, it's very safe to say that Maemo doesn't want, nor know how to entice iPhone developers.

Different mindsets, different goals, different ideas. In the end, we'll see which one is around longer.
 

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lcuk is offline lcuk
2009-08-16 , 14:28
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#65
you entice people by ignoring them
really, **** the world and just write the app you want to write.

liqtorch just went through extras devel, whichever apps I want to push through individually will follow.
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qgil is offline qgil
2009-08-16 , 14:55
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#66
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
Given the responses in this thread, it's very safe to say that Maemo doesn't want, nor know how to entice iPhone developers.
"It's very safe to say"? Good that you are not in our product planning team.

Comparing the Maemo SDK with the WebOS development just by the installation instructions is good to reach one conclusion (getting started with Maemo is today more difficult) but distorts the rest of the picture (the Maemo SDK is a much bigger and deeper beast allowing developers to touch almost every corner of the OS).

WebOS is a web runtime. Getting started with the Nokia Web Runtime tools is much easier than with the Maemo SDK. Even developing with Python is much simpler than natively with the Maemo SDK. Qt Creator is also a much better start.

The ideal scenario is to offer easy tools for developing simple stuff in the surface, easier tools to develop applications in the native environment and also powerful tools to allow platform developers to come with those rare wonders. It's very safe to say that we are working in these directions, and for us pushing on doesn't mean eliminating the other too.
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javispedro is offline javispedro
2009-08-16 , 15:10
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#67
Originally Posted by qgil View Post
The ideal scenario is to offer easy tools for developing simple stuff in the surface, easier tools to develop applications in the native environment and also powerful tools to allow platform developers to come with those rare wonders.
Yep, that's what I was thinking too. Even a simpler cross-compiler toolchain without any kind of cpu transparency would be useful for most native applications -- save for ports of already existing GNU packages, mostly have no need of overly long "configure"s requiring complete sbox-like environment (and thus can work in a cross-compile env that can't run compiled binaries). Then a simpler buildpackage tool (written in standard portable C) could do the job of creating the .deb file; it just needs to tar the appropriate files.
(See the iPhone GNU toolchain for examples)

Of course the debugging/emulation issue is still there, and sbox should be still there in case the need for anything more complex arises.
Last edited by javispedro; 2009-08-16 at 15:14.
 

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2009-08-16 , 15:22
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#68
Originally Posted by javispedro View Post
Yep, that's what I was thinking too. Even a simpler cross-compiler toolchain without any kind of cpu transparency would be useful for most native applications -- save for ports of already existing GNU packages, mostly have no need of overly long "configure"s requiring complete sbox-like environment (and thus can work in a cross-compile env that can't run compiled binaries). Then a simpler buildpackage tool (written in standard portable C) could do the job of creating the .deb file; it just needs to tar the appropriate files.
(See the iPhone GNU toolchain for examples)

Of course the debugging/emulation issue is still there, and sbox should be still there in case the need for anything more complex arises.
its entirely feasible and comfortable to get a dev env on the tablet itself, i know ive been usign it for over a year now.

a maemo-dpkg-buildpackage for maemo is something I have tried multitple times to do, but gnuisms get in the way. I know its possible because I've built a package once with it - but after rebooting my device was screwed.

its something I would put a bounty upon.

it would take someone with a bit more linux knowledge to do it, but would be an excellent thing to have.
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javispedro is offline javispedro
2009-08-16 , 15:48
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#69
For reference, check how the Cydia iPhone guys are doing it:
http://www.saurik.com/id/7

From the official dpkg-buildpackage toolchain they seem to be only using dpkg-deb -- the packer, which is readily available even on windows. He then tests on real device.

Also, they have standard cross compiler installed in /usr/local/bin/arm-apple-darwin8-gcc, etc. (from reading some of the Makefiles of cydia iphone software I gathered).
 
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debernardis is offline debernardis
2009-08-16 , 15:49
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#70
Originally Posted by qgil View Post
Getting started with the Nokia Web Runtime tools is much easier than with the Maemo SDK.
I apologize for my ignorance and for this being maybe offtopic but... will these widgets one can make with the Nokia Web Runtime, usable in the Maemo 5 environment? I mean, is it possible to make a desktop widget for rx-51 with these development instructions?
Thanks
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