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Posts: 11,700 | Thanked: 10,045 times | Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA
#21
Originally Posted by danramos View Post
Nono.. that I get, sadly. What I mean is that I also hear it out of ordinary people too, usually very politically conservative. On the one hand they do that--then on the other, they'll complain outrageously when they individually feel some sort of pinch.. but they still feel justified in that the government shouldn't stick its nose in there to force some sanity on the public's behalf.
My family and my wife's family are both that way. All smart people, but they amaze me by holding such opposing viewpoints without recognizing how self-defeating it is. I daresay that metality is too common and a big reason for why things don't improve.
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#22
Originally Posted by danramos View Post
Nono.. that I get, sadly. What I mean is that I also hear it out of ordinary people too, usually very politically conservative. On the one hand they do that--then on the other, they'll complain outrageously when they individually feel some sort of pinch.. but they still feel justified in that the government shouldn't stick its nose in there to force some sanity on the public's behalf.
Wait, what!? Seriously, I'm all for the government staying out of 99% of our lives, but then there's that 1% where they need to get involved, because if they don't, a lot of bad things will happen in this country. Yeah, the free market can take care of a lot of it, but sometimes the free market just can't correct a problem. Especially if someone successfully forms a monopoly and locks everyone out. That's when the government needs to come in and correct things and restore the market balance. It'd be nice if it corrected itself, but it doesn't always do that.
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
My family and my wife's family are both that way. All smart people, but they amaze me by holding such opposing viewpoints without recognizing how self-defeating it is. I daresay that metality is too common and a big reason for why things don't improve.
Well, I've found some of that to be the result of both pride and selfishness. Not saying they're openly proud or selfish, but since both pride and selfishness are a part of everyone's nature, the effects of them do flavor our opinions, beliefs, and how we see things. So sometimes those can really distort how we see things, and we overlook what's actually there for our little colored slice of reality.
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#23
I was about to write that American wireless providers look like saints compared to the Canadian "gang of three". Canadians on average pay 60% more than Americans.

North America needs more competition, by companies willing to charge European prices and bear the wrath of the Big Guys.
There was a point where my cousin from Finland, roaming here in Toronto, actually paid LESS for data then I did on my Rogers account. They have gotten better the last little while but cmon...someone roaming from afar getting a better rate than their OWN customer. "Welcome to Rogers, prepare to bend over"
 
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#24
The one problem with the wireless carriers is they think they are more than they really are. Remember the days when the telco's would only let you rent a phone to use on their network? They wanted the extra money, the extra control, and they fought hard to keep it that way.

Fast forward to today and they are behaving exactly the same way. As far as I am concerned Rogers is my wireless carrier. And that is IT. I do not want Rogers to decide which phones I can buy or use. I do not want Rogers software on my phone. I do not want to have to use Rogers stores or services. They should only provide the wireless.

I want to buy my software from a software company.
I want to buy my cellphone from a manufacturer.
I don't want Rogers messing around in areas that are not their areas of expertige.
 

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#25
Originally Posted by Lord Raiden View Post
Yeah, the free market can take care of a lot of it, but sometimes the free market just can't correct a problem. Especially if someone successfully forms a monopoly and locks everyone out. That's when the government needs to come in and correct things and restore the market balance.
Of course, in this case, it's the government itself that granted the monopolies . . .
 

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#26
Originally Posted by Nazrax View Post
Of course, in this case, it's the government itself that granted the monopolies . . .
Sadly, this is true to some extent. There's a lot of protected monopolies that government helps (through rediculous patents, copyright, contracts, deals, etc.) that are patently anti-consumer and against the public interest.
 
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#27
The article is written from an American (USA) point of view.

Why do Americans pay five times more for cell phone service than the Dutch?
Netherlands is a small country which has a good network infrastructure, much like Japan's metropolises. During the boom of cellphones (without 3G) there was a lot of competition in the Netherlands. In Japan the same, and still, because Japanese love gadgets.

I think the issue lies also in some kind of lack of competing on the network owners (mobile telcos) while maximizing profit for shareholders.

However as long as people sign on for bad 2 year contracts in a saturated market no wonder they aren't trying to compete with each other. You only need to hook the fish every 2 years, and everyone is hooked already. Deja vu elections.

If cell phones weren't subsidized, then we'd know how much we're paying for the phone and how much we're paying for wireless services. With the subsidy, we have no idea.
Real Issue: Lack of applying simple mathematics, aka 'mass stupidity'. It is pretty simple to calculate how much you pay for something.

Carriers and handset makers create these fake limitations for precisely the same reason movie theaters don't let you bring in your own food -- because it creates mini-monopolies that enable gouging on prices. Why do you think 10 cents worth of popcorn costs $4.50 at the megaplex?
The limitations are started because governemnt sells frequencies. The limitations are therefore political based on technical limits. That is why there is not enough competition. The governemnt, via FCC et al, must force limits on those it granted a monopoly position; the network owners.

In some European countries, this practice is considered anticompetitive and is against the law.
True, but not many.

I don't know if it was AT&T, Apple or both that decided that the Google Voice app should be banned from the iTunes store, but locking out services that threaten total control is standard operating procedure in the U.S.. wireless carrier industry. Competition and innovation is the last thing carriers want. So they use their ownership of the wireless pipes to block the applications and services that would need to move through those pipes.
The reason of stated example is still investigated, by the FCC. There are many problems and sides of this debate and specific example but in the end its similar to the ethical question of are you allowed to do with your hardware what you want if what you do is within the boundaries of law? Ofcourse, maybe you signed some stupid contract with that 2 year deal...

Your solution to public opposition is more lobbying
So we must lobby back. Tobaco industries did this too, and slowly but surely they lost. Which is the goal of lobbying even if you are wrong.

With nearly every netbook, smartbook, eBook reader, GPS device, digital camera and wristwatch poised to potentially support mobile broadband wireless connectivity, the carriers are positioning themselves to seize control of the consumer electronics industry.
They get more control indeed, and are used for always-on products. This is a tool to give certain corporations, including device manufacturers such as Amazon and Apple, more control, while giving citizens less privacy to telcos and government. However because people do not care about this yet we will first collectively experience the downsides of this after which we will learn.

But all that equipment is useless without access to the airwaves, which are by law owned by the people. And that's what makes the wireless carriers business different from other industries. Companies that are granted licenses to use the publicly owned airwaves should be required by our government to meet certain standards of fairness, equal access and competitiveness. That's not happening right now. It's time to let your state and national politicians know that you want this industry reined in.
Nice post etc but most people don't (want to) understand all this, and this will not change quickly.
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