Thanks! That sure fits the context better than Automated System Recovery or American Sociological Review.

I have been using many s40 and s60 phones, my N810 and other small devices (also cameras and SLRs) a lot. I was shocked to see and read this thread through. The way I see it, Nokia has made all the right choices with the screen orientation and usability in the N900. To defend ones inability to accept a natively landscape-oriented, new device with one hand usage, symbian development, or just habit/the-others-have-it-too, is just plain childish to me.

So, some people want portrait-orientation on a phone, some need it. As it stands, and this is expressed many time in this thread, the N900 isn't the right device for those users. A differet phone will have to do, or they need to wait for the next Nokia phone that will have the same speed with a portrait orientation.

I have been using all the beforementioned devices with one hand to my satisfacton. And as said, YMwillV. If one needs to use a certain device at a certain (uncomfortabe) time, one will find a way to do it. And here's the catch: how the **** the users threatening here, who apparently have single arms, cannot suddenly use a landscape-oriented phone? Already I can see an ultimate elite forming: those who can use their N900s the way they like, as it was designed.

Well anyhoo, this discussion has very little to do with the N900 specifically, I hope that everyone understands this. Other devices (phones for one-hand-usage) will come. Symbian will get the hardware it needs to perform, whether the speed will come from optimizing the os or raw powaaaah, I really don't care. I will be satisfied with the N900 as it is now, and with future improvements it will be even better.

Nowhere does it say the N900 will be the only device using maemo 5. But it seems apparent... This thread is under 'platform > maemo 5' and to me seems specific to the N900. Should it be kept more strictly with N900 or be bent towards 'step 5'? I thought the 'problem' is already solved in maemo 6.

Just my 2c.

Au contraire!

http://www.humanfactors.com/downloads/nov02.asp

The average novel is about the right width for optimum reading. Putting it in portrait means you can maintain that width and have more on the page. The particular width is for specific font sizes etc of course.

In the case of reading in a mobile digital format I would argue that the reduced scrolling requirement is in favour of portrait.

I dunno. I've heard that early books were tech support nightmares.

You reminded me that I used to own a Nokia 5510 Funny thing, during that time It didn't even come to mind that I was limited to landscape use only.

I don't think the purpose of Maemo is to copy Symbian.

For Nokia it's a bit pointless. It already owns Symbian, and it is doing well, there is no need to replicate it. Symbian is not going away.

No feature is free. Every feature you add makes the entire package heavier and makes future development slower. Maemo is in an advantageous state because it doesn't have much legacy right now.

Things like MMS are legacy. Legacy features are features that people still use, but are generally on their way out. People were still using C cassettes a long time after CD discs came out. Irrespective of if and when MMS support comes for Maemo, adding something like MMS support creates a lot of legacy baggage. MMS uses WAP protocols, and it is burdened with several kinds of oddities, service-specific exceptions etc.

Once a feature, any feature, is there, stripping it away becomes very hard. And as long as something cannot be stripped away, it takes time and effort and man months to develop and maintain, and it creates links and hooks and limitations to the UI and the SW, making it increasingly harder to remain agile and making it increasingly likely to slow down future progress.

You surely realize that there is a correlation between how features Symbian has and how long it takes to develop for it. And there is a correlation between how many features you have, and how many 'limitations' the sum of the features then create.

What Symbian is is defined by the features it has and the process in which those features have been built. Projects like "there is application X, I hate the application. Let's try to do a better application Y with all the features of application X." can often end up with Y being just like X. (The Netscape story comes first to my mind.)

So, and this is just my personal viewpoint, if Symbian is for smartphones and Maemo is for mobile computers, I'm happy if it turns out so that Maemo does not try to get every feature that Symbian has, but rather develops a whole bunch of features that Symbian does not have. Naturally there is some overlap, but there are also some quite distinct use cases and use case prioritizations between a "smartphone" and a "mobile computer".

Replying to myself, for those interested in the story (it is a very good story to remember):

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articl...000000069.html

I'm sorry, unless Nokia adds diagonal mode and sidetalking, I will be forced to buy a fax machine.

"Oh, that new phone from Nokia.. I heard it's pretty good, except it's not powerful enough to do portrait mode"

You're right. I get heated sometimes. But those familiar with me know why I'm here, and know I'm a fire soul. I'm passionate about mobiles, and do everything I do to further the industry, nothing more. I'll still be broke and depending on dog breeding and recording music to feed myself. This is what fuels me, not pays me.

I'm not what I'd consider self righteous, just more of an advocate for mobile users. I think some users get ignored because of attitudes like some I've seen and heard in these forums, and I don't think it does Maemo or mobilism any good acting that way. All should be welcome here, in the spirit of open source and crowd source initiatives. Unwelcome behavior invites the rebel dissident in me. I think all should be welcome, and opinions should be respected. And I think that "stick with Symbian if you don't like Maemo" attitude was just snobby, and I hate snobs. Sue me. BLOCK ME! But don't direct it at me. I don't play that, sorry. I know how powerful open source ideas and sharing can be, just as much as speaking with tact, so I'll take everyone's advice. I hope some of mine is taken as well.

That's totally fine. What I have to say as far as furthering the development of Maemo and making it appeal to a wider audience may not apply to you in the first place. I notice some Maemo users aren't big proponents of change or progress, and anyone willing to suggest such is stepping into territory already staked as their own. I wouldn't want to waste your time either.

I'm surprised no one has stepped forward and called out whoever it was that suggested to me or anyone else that Maemo wasn't for them. The fact is the true OS I envision doesn't exist, but this is the closest. That I may have an idea to improve it is a good thing in my book. If ASR improved S60, and it did, it should be as good for Maemo. In fact, I don't see how it would be a disadvantage on any level. I understand Maemo 5 was released before they had time to do something like ASR in time, but I also bet Nokia can see the value in it. Too bad others can't, and I'm ridiculed for believing it can. I will say I'm not the only one feeling like I do.

I keep hearing others say "The apps that need to be in portrait..." Its not that simple. Some want apps in portrait, others in landscape. Why have to choose? PC users, smartphone users, point and shoot cameras, even PMPs support allowing users the choice to decide what's best for them. Maemo positions itself as the device you "use as YOU wish". Will it live up to that, or be the "use as WE think is best" device? We'll see...

Thanks for the nicer reply, sjgadsby. I understand where you come from. But when someone says something in the OS is cumbersome, listing an extreme use case of using the device sideways as a viable alternative gives the impression that acceptable support already exists, when I know the iPhone minions will eat Maemo alive with bad PR if we don't take new users seriously. And finding out you've never used a Symbian device, you've probably had little experience with ASR. I suggest you use an N97 or 5800 for awhile and then realize how ASR can improve the Maemo experience. It is actually a big advantage. That they are phones is moot. I use the N97 as a web tablet, and SIM free, depending on Google Voice and Wifi. The two OSes are more alike than you realize, and we should use the ground broken by Symbian to grow Maemo.

The "don't buy what suits your needs" thing was rude, but its over. I know now you weren't trying to be an ***. But what if nothing suits me? Shouldn't an FOSS OS be agile enough to adapt to more people's needs? I think what I want fits Maemo MOSTLY, but the future has yet to come.

Don't think Symbian users won't accept Maemo as it is. Its just that Nokia has placed Maemo as an upgrade to S60 at the moment. I don't want to downgrade anything from S60 in the process. I am just predicting what the Symbian users migrating to the OS will be saying, and its best we know and prepare for it. It may not be productive, but it will happen. How do you handle bad press, tell them to go back to Symbian?

ASR isn't a big philosophical move, and not much to ask for. As a whole, Maemo rocks, but its not as ubiquitous as Symbian for a reason, and it will only be held back or advanced by us. Fremantle has what S60 users need, just not ASR. It wasn't in the original N95 except by slide action, but now its everywhere. Maemo can be the same way.

I'm sure Maemo users said they don't need a high end camera module either at one point. Well, you'll see the advantage of it soon, and realize you don't know what you need until you've either tried it or lack it. Progress is usually good.

atilla77, Symbian users are definitely listening. We're aware of what Symbian brings to the table. My Symbian community is one that operates devices on the extreme end, hacking and modding and whatnot. We aren't much different, I keep saying. We've always seen Maemo as our big brother. We DO want the same features and functions of Symbian for Maemo, but that's a good thing. Symbian was built upon 10 years of mobile research, and Maemo has an opportunity to build upon this. We see room for growth, at least I do. Symbian was getting too bloated for this growth, but Maemo is fresh with standard stuff we need.

Jack6425, don't forget the old Ngage didn't survive, and today's Ngage has grown from that limited platform, great as its sidetalking was. LOL As mrojas said, the migration from Symbian to Maemo should be about preserving the past great experience while growing new ones. We already have a landscape only S60 device, and it held back an otherwise great device (E90). Maemo shouldn't remind us of past mistakes, but future triumphs.

I'm glad mrojas said what he did about Symbian. Its totally possible that Symbian will become an alternative to Maemo, and its better adaptability makes it easier to fit more shoes. It could become a Maemo 2.0 quite easily. But Maemo's Linux framework makes it better to me, and I shouldn't have to lose that just for ASR. Screen size and resolution maybe, but not something like ASR.

Said Mandibela:
"So, some people want portrait-orientation on a phone, some need it. As it stands, and this is expressed many time in this thread, the N900 isn't the right device for those users... who apparently have single arms, cannot suddenly use a landscape-oriented phone? Already I can see an ultimate elite forming: those who can use their N900s the way they like, as it was designed.
"

Will this be the statement going forward? Or is there any traction to adding it to the Maemo 5 platform in the future? Because Symbian users are used to buying devices now and waiting on features expected in the future. But to simply say "Go try another OS" isn't what most Symbian users imagined an OSS OS would bring. We imagine something like our PyS60 devs on steroids. Ask for a feature loud enough in a large enough group, and watch it come to life. But 30 pages later, its a "do it our way or bounce" way of life. Sad, IMO.

Also, remember not all mobile users have even one hand or fingers. Accessibility is a major thing with Symbian, and I speak for many disabled mobile use groups. One of those is Amir Solemani, a great Symbian user who happens to be legally blind, and others that have missing limbs and other maladies. What do you tell them?? Get another hand or an HTC Hero?! I hope not. Being an FOSS developer means filling the needs of consumers. Which ones do we leave behind, those that want one handed usage and accessibility features? Maemo 6 is a year away. So we just say "wait" and not serve our base? Because by default, flagship and premium Symbian users just became a big part of it.

ragnar, MMS is legacy to you, but to people with no data connection in emerging markets, its the only way to send images. Not everyone has email, though Nokia and Ovi are trying. So some technology is good for some people, and killing features because WE don't need them is alot like the mistake Jobs made with the iPhone. He claimed it wasn't needed, then trumpets when he adds it to the iPhone.

right now, maemo and Symbian are alot alike, only lacking support for Linux tools and apps, and that will somewhat change soon. Maemo needs to be ahead of Symbian by a mile, not a block. rangar, I'm interested in these supposed distinct use cases of smartphones and mobile computers, and how you even differentiate the two.

To end this short reply, I'm like a pit bull sometimes, and need my chain yanked to calm me down. Sorry.