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BruceL is offline BruceL
2009-09-21 , 22:05
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#161
Originally Posted by allnameswereout View Post
@ quingu, the lessons are that 1) no convergence device is perfect or gives you exactly the features you need while not giving you any features you don't need
No. AFAICT, All they would have had to do was NOT solder the connection that disables OTG. It isn't a matter of not being able to do it. It sounds like the feature was actively DISABLED. There is no lesson to learn. They could have made it work, but for politics.
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2009-09-21 , 22:10
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#162
Seriously this a deal breaker to me.
I know that SD-USB converter might be the solution for this one.
From what I found SD cards require 3.3v to run (2.7~3.6v is also possible) and USB requires at lest 4.75V. Which might be a problem here. Anyway to make a converter it might work with connecting a usb pins to the following
microSD-=-USB
Pin---Pin
1
2
3--->2*
4--->1
5
6--->4
7--->3*
8

Now we want someone to sacrifice his microSD + USB device (his usb stick?) + card-reader/laptop/n900/mobile to see if its going to work :P
Before going a head I have to warn you that I didn't know which pin to which it should be connected in the case of (7&3)* One suppose to be Data in and other Data-out. I think someone who is into DIY or in electric can do it in the right way. I should also include that you shouldn't try this with with any important data in your usb stick. The worse case it might not work or you just burned it out.

For electric guys check this out

USB Pinout:
http://pinouts.ru/Slots/USB_pinout.shtml
SD (microsd):
http://www.chlazza.net/sdcardinfo.html
http://www.pqi.com.tw/upload/downloa...xxx%20VA.1.pdf
(In the following link it shows to how to connect a miniSD to microSD)
http://www.planetmobile.it/jumpjack/...inout-eng.html
 

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thecursedfly is offline thecursedfly
2009-09-21 , 22:18
Posts: 243 | Thanked: 198 times | Joined on Aug 2009
#163
Originally Posted by allnameswereout View Post
...(long post of previous page)...
don't take it as an offense pls, but you look a bit like a marketing guy, telling me what I need and not, what I might or not need in the future... they're feature missing which were in previous models, which i was looking forward for, that's it.

i don't own BT keyb and mouse, and buying those costs, even mose since you need batteries. I once had a BT mouse, but got tired of the batteries problems and switched back to a 'eternal' USB mouse.

i don't want a wifi router since i allready have a well working ethernet one; a cable has lesser lag/errors problems and uses the available speed more efficiently; and lastly, it might seem crazy, since we're bombarded continuously with every kind of radiations (including GPRS, 3G, BT, wifi..), I try to avoid unneeded extra radiation all day and night long.

i don't see alternatived for the usb flash drives so far. the bluetooth usb hub still has to be confirmed if you're referring to that, and the usb sd adapter isn't usable with the N900 (see where the sd slot is).

my digital camera uses SD cards, not microSD. only ways to transfer photos are: USB or SD reader. for me the photos of the N900 might be good enough for some occasions, but not enough for other occasions. EyeFi is a product more I should buy, and it's not really cheap.

"It exists, its referred to earlier in this thread." about the bluetooth-USB Hub.. I wouldn't be so sure about that, as I allready posted here: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...8&postcount=89
try to find one in any shop online and post a link, thanks. no hands-on review either afaik. ( here the author of the article says: "So yeah, I am most definitely gona order myself one of these Bluetooth USB Hubs." he never had it in his hands either.)

anyway i repeat, it looks like you decide what i need or not... exactly what i hate in apple's marketing.
 

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allnameswereout is offline allnameswereout
2009-09-21 , 22:18
Posts: 3,397 | Thanked: 1,212 times | Joined on Jul 2008 @ Netherlands
#164
Originally Posted by BruceL View Post
No. AFAICT, All they would have had to do was NOT solder the connection that disables OTG. It isn't a matter of not being able to do it. It sounds like the feature was actively DISABLED. There is no lesson to learn. They could have made it work, but for politics.
USB standard, required for certification, does not allow that. This isn't a deliberate attempt to piss off customers. It is because of USB standard doesn't allow, time contraints, and tough design decision between USB charging and USB host mode. See: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/mae...er/020830.html

MMS is unavailable not to piss us off but because of time contrains. BlueTooth DUN can be added 3rd party via BlueZ. Nokia is really doing its best to please us (!!!) but sometimes they have to decide between 2 (or more) decisions while the outcome will always lead to angry feedback on t.m.o... sometimes decisions are tough... and you cannot make everyone happy...

And the beauty of Apple is that they are able to make tough design decisions, following a clean interface HIG, providing a good SDK.

What I don't like though is the vague restrictions and that Christian Anglo-Saxon moral shoven up my throat (violence good, sexual bad).

Nor do I like the intentional crippling of the device. Such as BlueTooth disabled on iPod 2nd generation. And then enabling it for 10 EUR software update, but only providing AD2P profile (e.g. no SPP). Or not allowing BlueTooth DUN. Or not allowing 3rd party repositories. Nokia is not like that. Nokia welcomes 3rd party repositories in Maemo. Nokia did not intentionally cripple BlueTooth they allow DUN via 3rd party community support. And Nokia did not intentionally cripple USB on N900 either; see the mail I link to above!!!
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Last edited by allnameswereout; 2009-09-21 at 22:25.
 

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attila77 is offline attila77
2009-09-21 , 22:34
Posts: 3,319 | Thanked: 5,610 times | Joined on Aug 2008 @ Finland
#165
Originally Posted by allnameswereout View Post
What is MTP?
Media Transfer Protocol. Two important things about it, one, you can take pictures in a programmable fashion straight from the computer, and two, the camera does not just play dead and act as a mass storage interface That way when you are connected, the camera is still fully operational and can take/delete pictures without tripping over the host connection (not to mention it's able to handle thumbnails and metadata without having to copy over the whole image).

FireWire 800 would give you almost twice the speed, and is more reliable than USB. Ofcourse your devices would need to support it.
For some reason firewire (even 1394a, not to mention 1394b) is a white crow around here, so it wasn't really an option
 

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hqh is offline hqh
2009-09-21 , 22:45
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#166
Originally Posted by quingu View Post
Of course most of us will have a laptop at hand and won't see a missing usb connectivity with the n900 as a problem - but it would have been a great bonus.
Yes, I agree. It would have been a good bonus feature - but if it's permanently disabled in hardware, people whining online are not going to make it magically appear...
HOWEVER...

Originally Posted by allnameswereout View Post
According to quoted hypothesis not because its controlled by a pin (0/1). Like a jumper. Not by software. How can the Linux kernel ignore the refusal of USB controller not wanting to go in host mode? By screaming? That doesn't switch the pin, and from Mara's post it might be even difficult to hardware mod this...
At least the publicly available OMAP35x (similar to but not exactly the same used in N900) technical reference manual lists USB2.0 TESTMODE register. It appears that it could be used to force the controller into a specific mode by software, regardless of the ID-pin or connected devices.

The N900 might not deliver power to the port but other than that I still believe the support might be doable by software hacks.
Last edited by hqh; 2009-09-21 at 22:48.
 

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BruceL is offline BruceL
2009-09-21 , 23:00
Posts: 305 | Thanked: 154 times | Joined on Aug 2006 @ Colorado
#167
Originally Posted by allnameswereout View Post
USB standard, required for certification, does not allow that. This isn't a deliberate attempt to piss off customers. It is because of USB standard doesn't allow, time contraints, and tough design decision between USB charging and USB host mode. See: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/mae...er/020830.html
I'm not interested is who is or isn't to blame. The fact remains that I'm still going to have to keep/maintain another computer and the fact remains that I am upset about it. That doesn't mean that I don't like Nokia or that I don't like the maemo community. It just means that I'm going to have to lug more than I want to for awhile longer and I'm disappointed because I (justifiably) thought the N900 would change that. Furthermore, it's good that I am communicating that I am upset because it will help Nokia do a post-mortum analysis. Lastly, by emphasizing that Nokia could help by issuing a statement about when we can expect a device without this shortcoming I am providing them with the information they need to help maintain a sense of community.

Those who are saying that I won't have to carry around extra things are just wrong. Those who are saying that all I have to do is simply carry around a separate computer (e.g., qole) are correct, but that is exactly what I just said I am disappointed about. For those who want me to stop being disappointed, stop pushing your values up my throat.
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Laughing Man is offline Laughing Man
2009-09-21 , 23:16
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#168
Originally Posted by attila77 View Post
There WILL be other Maemo 5 devices in 2010 so the question is not whether Nokia will try to cover a larger market, but WHAT market segments will these additional Maemo devices target ? Cheaper/lower spec ? No voice ? More compact ? No qwerty ? Larger 4-5" screen ? That's why I was expecting a Maemo device roadmap now that the N900 (and more importantly Maemo5) is out, but alas, still no info.
That's what I'm beginning to wonder. I hope I find out my news by this time next year (when I'll be buying the n900). And when and what devices that Maemo 6 will be on (not just an upgrade, but what hardware will Nokia release for Maemo 6).
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"Meamo!" sounds like what Zorro would say to catherine zeta jones... after she slaps him for looking at her dirtily...
 
vinc17 is offline vinc17
2009-09-21 , 23:22
Posts: 227 | Thanked: 53 times | Joined on Feb 2008 @ Lyon, France
#169
Originally Posted by allnameswereout View Post
Seriously, if that is so important for you, grab some second hand laptop for 100 EUR and let it boot into k3b or something. As added bonus it can function as portable HDD as well. And it doesn't need a USB powered hub either, it has its own battery. Maybe it can even power up your N900 when the battery is empty.
Alternatively you can use a HDD with USB OTG (found with Google). If I understand correctly, it was only $18, without the HD itself. This review was written 3 years ago. I wonder what similar devices exist nowadays...

BTW, I've never needed to use my N810 as USB host. When I had to do file transfers, I used wifi (sometimes in ad-hoc mode).

EDIT: USB harddisk enclosures
Last edited by vinc17; 2009-09-21 at 23:29. Reason: added link
 

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allnameswereout is offline allnameswereout
2009-09-21 , 23:29
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#170
Originally Posted by thecursedfly View Post
don't take it as an offense pls, but you look a bit like a marketing guy, telling me what I need and not, what I might or not need in the future... they're feature missing which were in previous models, which i was looking forward for, that's it.
What I do is provide alternative solutions for the harsh reality: no USB host mode in N900. If you want some other device which has it fine go buy that.

i don't own BT keyb and mouse, and buying those costs, even mose since you need batteries. I once had a BT mouse, but got tired of the batteries problems and switched back to a 'eternal' USB mouse.
My SU-8W is portable and can do like 50 hours with its batteries. Also, I don't need it often, because my Nokia N810 had, my Nokia E71 has, and my Nokia N900 will have a good hardware keyboard. Maybe there are models which have a rechargable battery? And, when was 'once'?

i don't want a wifi router since i allready have a well working ethernet one
Well, you're living in the past, most people have some kind of WiFi WLAN nowadays. Maybe you can stick a USB WiFi stick into it and make it work even better, so you can use your N8x0 or N900 wireless. Then it is also more mobile...

a cable has lesser lag/errors problems and uses the available speed more efficiently
Yeah, and a cable has to be attached all the time. You want tons of cables and things sticking on and around your mobile device? Well, I don't. The relevance for N900 is questionable.

it might seem crazy, since we're bombarded continuously with every kind of radiations
For most people this seems crazy and is indeed of no concern. N900 also comes with 3G and GPS btw.

and the usb sd adapter isn't usable with the N900 (see where the sd slot is).
Point taken. Other people could use a USB flash drive with SD card in it though. Or e-mail the data.

my digital camera uses SD cards, not microSD.
SD <-> microSD converter.

EyeFi is a product more I should buy, and it's not really cheap.
Agreed, it isn't cheap. Comfort comes with a price. For those who do professional photography (for which N900 on-board camera is obviously not good enough) it might be a good addon option.

I wouldn't be so sure about that, as I allready posted here: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...8&postcount=89
Thats about a hub with 4 USB2 connectors and provides Wireless USB.

try to find one in any shop online and post a link, thanks.
http://usb.brando.com/55-in-1-blueto...0c036d015.html this one? It even supports all those card formats you were always afraid for you would one day maybe need to support it via an adapter

Why is a simple USB hub + a BlueTooth dongle not suffice?
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