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Mandibela is offline Mandibela
2009-09-28 , 10:29
Posts: 270 | Thanked: 195 times | Joined on Aug 2009 @ Finland
#81
Originally Posted by christexaport View Post
HUH? Its the oldest trick in the book, and biillions of portrait devices shipped with qwerty and T9. You lost me there.


Not true again. Check the real tests. The fastest texter in the world uses T9, and couldn't get 40% of the speed in qwerty. Where do you get the idea qwerty is faster?
check these links:

http://www.symbian-freak.com/news/00..._or_qwerty.htm
http://jace.livejournal.com/446536.html

I'd love to do another speed test shootout to prove a point...
Maybe in english. Other laguages behave differently. There is no way T9 is always faster.
 

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Mandibela is offline Mandibela
2009-09-28 , 10:31
Posts: 270 | Thanked: 195 times | Joined on Aug 2009 @ Finland
#82
Originally Posted by christexaport View Post
What if the use case is simple data entry? Right now, its 2 hands. What then?
You use 2 hands. If you can't use your own two, ask a friend
 
ragnar is offline ragnar
2009-09-28 , 10:45
Posts: 631 | Thanked: 1,123 times | Joined on Sep 2005 @ Helsinki
#83
Originally Posted by christexaport View Post
Not true again. Check the real tests. The fastest texter in the world uses T9, and couldn't get 40% of the speed in qwerty. Where do you get the idea qwerty is faster?
check these links:
http://www.symbian-freak.com/news/00..._or_qwerty.htm
http://jace.livejournal.com/446536.html
I think real tests = controlled usability studies with more than one user. i.e. those are somewhat off from being real tests, even though it is certainly passionate text from a passionate user. Believe me, I've seen real tests and test results, and in average qwerty is much faster than T9. Yes, you can develop to be a hardcore T9 typer, but just the same way I could do my test (being a rather quick E71 typist) and find my E71 typing speed crush my N95 typing speed.

And yes, that would be a flawed test, but it is just as flawed as his test.
 

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ragnar is offline ragnar
2009-09-28 , 10:54
Posts: 631 | Thanked: 1,123 times | Joined on Sep 2005 @ Helsinki
#84
Originally Posted by christexaport View Post
HUH? Its the oldest trick in the book, and biillions of portrait devices shipped with qwerty and T9. You lost me there.
Yes, but it depends on the size of the device. On a 2.5" monoblock with conveniently placed HW keys you can do T9 with one hand. On a 3.5"-4" touch screen it is far less comfortable, depending on the device (thickness etc.) and the positioning of the controls on the touch screen.

i.e. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKtyzDrLwLk What he is doing at the beginning, this is not one hand usage (just to make sure we are talking about the same thing). The first hand is holding the device.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiK96WuFBN8 This is not one hand usage.

I checked about 10 videos iPhone typing videos from Youtube, none of them were typing with one hand.
 

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chemist is offline chemist
2009-09-28 , 11:03
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#85
anidel:
please consider your app as 'good' in landscape! having the camera involved for your xournal background sounds much more important then portrait mode. but one idea for your portrait: have it scrolling toolbars and keep the button size. act. I think ppl who use xournal will use it most of the time in landscape mode, with a pen so you could have an additional set of smaller buttons (make it choosable)
 

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range is offline range
2009-09-28 , 11:07
Posts: 337 | Thanked: 160 times | Joined on Aug 2009 @ München, DE
#86
Originally Posted by ragnar View Post
Then again, Apple has a qwerty in portrait. In order for that to work nicely, you really need a predictive engine (as Apple has) on top of it, trying to smooth out and predict your finger presses.
I don't find the prediction engine of the nits (770 and 800) that bad, so this is already there. But I already do have problems hitting the keys on the virtual keyboard as it is, and I don't think it would have larger keys in portrait mode ...
 
ragnar is offline ragnar
2009-09-28 , 11:14
Posts: 631 | Thanked: 1,123 times | Joined on Sep 2005 @ Helsinki
#87
Originally Posted by range View Post
I don't find the prediction engine of the nits (770 and 800) that bad, so this is already there. But I already do have problems hitting the keys on the virtual keyboard as it is, and I don't think it would have larger keys in portrait mode ...
Yes, by a predictive engine I didn't mean a word completion engine, but an engine that predicts what you were intending to press and adjusts your input accordingly. That's what enables smaller than thumb sized keys in portrait mode: even though you type slightly off, the predictive engine guides and tries to match your clicks with reasonable keys in the nearby area. Sometimes you actually touch "q", but it interprets it initially as "w", for instance.
 

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christexaport is offline christexaport
2009-09-28 , 11:21
Posts: 1,589 | Thanked: 720 times | Joined on Aug 2009 @ Arlington (DFW), Texas
#88
Said Mandibela:
"Creating two interfaces for any app is mandatory if system-wide-ASR is implemented."
Not so. Devs have the option, just like on the N95/97/N900, to support it, just as Mobitubia doesn't support portrait on the N97, which has system wide ASR.

@ragnar, I'm busy, and I couldn't find the university tests on T9 vs Suretype vs. QWERTY, so I shamelessly got you to read something from me. I'll shoot the real tests when I find them. I've got to go to sleep for a couple hours. Eyes are falling...

Now Mandibela, can you give me a hand with this N900? I wanna Tweet some nasty Eldar comments.

(Just kidding. Eldar is my mentor and friend.)
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christexaport is offline christexaport
2009-09-28 , 11:24
Posts: 1,589 | Thanked: 720 times | Joined on Aug 2009 @ Arlington (DFW), Texas
#89
Originally Posted by ragnar View Post
I checked about 10 videos iPhone typing videos from Youtube, none of them were typing with one hand.
I don't doubt it. The iPhone isn't designed for one hand. Try an N95 or N97 video. I'm not a big fan of Cupertino kit... I'm a big Nokia lover, have been for years. NOTHING matches them pound for pound. So using an iPhone for anything we discuss is heresy and blasphemy.
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kanishou is offline kanishou
2009-09-28 , 11:25
Posts: 341 | Thanked: 607 times | Joined on Dec 2008
#90
Originally Posted by range View Post
I don't find the prediction engine of the nits (770 and 800) that bad, so this is already there. But I already do have problems hitting the keys on the virtual keyboard as it is, and I don't think it would have larger keys in portrait mode ...
But it's different, right? What the NITs do (if I haven't missed something), is to predict a set of words that begin with the letters you typed. What the iPhone does is to predict what word you wanted to type, even if you missed the keys by one, and then replaces with the correct word automatically after hitting space.

I actually never found the prediction in the NITs particularly useful, as tapping the right words is disruptive and doesn't really make typing faster or more comfortable for me. What the iPhone does seems fairly ingenious, although it is still a crutch that I'd prefer not to be necessary.
 

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