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mikec is offline mikec
2009-10-15 , 18:45
Posts: 1,366 | Thanked: 1,185 times | Joined on Jan 2006
#31
As usual people pick and choose the numbers they want

here are the actuals

http://investors.nokia.com/phoenix.z...rterlyearnings

You can see they made very good margins, but took a billion euro special charges. More important to look at the devices and services business, which is going very well with improved margins this quarter.

Mike C
 

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allnameswereout is offline allnameswereout
2009-10-15 , 18:56
Posts: 3,397 | Thanked: 1,212 times | Joined on Jul 2008 @ Netherlands
#32
Originally Posted by livefreeordie View Post
I know. My problem right now is that I do in fact want to invest long term, but with the market so uncertain right now I don't want to suddenly see my investment halved even temporarily.
Then it is simple: do not invest.

IMHO, it's not necessarily smart to invest long term at a time like this, when you can make much more money by jumping in at the bottom (if you can predict it). I don't want to day trade, so I'll be sitting out for a while.
You're right, the system is optimized for short-term gains; not long-term gains. However, if you join the game in that same way you're contributing to the problem.

The market is always uncertain, and any money you invest can be (temporarily) halved, or even completely lost. Even on non-stock market layers, such as banks.

If Nokia gets a beat because of recession, you can expect other corporations experiencing the same. So that'd require further analysis beyond the buzzword.

Recently was a topic about brand recognition and Nokia is still place #5, with very little change compared to last year.

There are certain factors which give hint about unstable future but I don't see these factors here. Maybe you do, all the better for you, ofcourse.

What I do see is that Nokia is not taken seriously in USA, but that is quite an apparent pattern, and a reason I take articles stemming from US journalism with more grains of salt. Especially when other factors such as overdone discussion of iPhone.

Edit: Oh, and I might add that the more FUD the better. Now that I'm out of the market, I'm hoping for a downswing in Q4/Q1 and massive amounts of anti-Nokia FUD, so I can buy shares early next year really cheap
You're getting the hang of it. Sometimes, FUD is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[Disclaimer: I play AEX via 3rd party who only have executive role.]
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livefreeordie is offline livefreeordie
2009-10-15 , 19:10
Posts: 262 | Thanked: 232 times | Joined on Aug 2009
#33
Originally Posted by allnameswereout View Post
You're getting the hang of it. Sometimes, FUD is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I had the hang of it the whole time. I'm just trying to figure out when the best time to get back in would be. Of course I know any investment could always be halved even in a good market. Come on
 
Rauha is offline Rauha
2009-10-15 , 19:33
Posts: 1,400 | Thanked: 3,751 times | Joined on Sep 2009 @ Arctic cold of northern .fi
#34
Originally Posted by mikec View Post
As usual people pick and choose the numbers they want

here are the actuals

http://investors.nokia.com/phoenix.z...rterlyearnings

You can see they made very good margins, but took a billion euro special charges. More important to look at the devices and services business, which is going very well with improved margins this quarter.

Mike C
Nokia doing just fine.

Nokia Siemens Networks is heading towards a brick wall. Nokia had devalue NSN by almost billion euros. This could mean big trouble for the parent company in mid- / long term.

Funny how all North American tech blogs are blaming Apple and RIM for Nokia's troubles when it's actually Ericcson totally destroying NSN on network business.
 
DaveP1 is offline DaveP1
2009-10-15 , 20:08
Posts: 607 | Thanked: 450 times | Joined on Sep 2009 @ Washington, DC
#35
Originally Posted by Rauha View Post
Funny how all North American tech blogs are blaming Apple and RIM for Nokia's troubles when it's actually Ericcson totally destroying NSN on network business.
For a good analysis, see:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-30686_3-10...g=2547-1_3-0-5

They aren't blaming Apple and RIM for the writeoff, they are giving them credit for the drop in smartphone shipments.

Nokia's phone shipments were greater than expected but their share of the smartphone market and the number of smartphones shipped declined. (Perhaps more troubling for the long term the average price of the dumbphones shipped also dropped.)

While Nokia explained the drop in smartphone share and shipments as a result of component shortages (they mentioned camera components specifically), analysts feel that it is better explained by the millions of non-Nokia smartphones sold in the US market where none of the N series phones have much penetration at all due to lack of carrier tie-ins.

Whether the N900 will change this remains to be seen. Frankly, given the success of some of the two digit N series phones elsewhere, I think that Nokia should concentrate on a carrier supported N97.
 
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mikec is offline mikec
2009-10-15 , 20:52
Posts: 1,366 | Thanked: 1,185 times | Joined on Jan 2006
#36
Once again they pick the numbers that suit them to grab the headlines.

Nokia grew market share in from Q1 to Q2 from 39% to 41%, yet this was never published. The drop back down to 35% and its all over the headlines.

I have no doubt in my mind that the drop was a result of announcement of all the new stuff in September, and buyers holding off.

Mike C
 

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frals is offline frals
2009-10-15 , 21:02
Posts: 547 | Thanked: 1,383 times | Joined on Sep 2009 @ Stockholm, Sweden
#37
As previously stated in this topic most of the coverage (which I've seen anyway) has been very US centric, and it's pretty well known that the US (so far at least) has been far from a priority for Nokia and I don't think anyone is surprised that RIM and Apple is eating their market share in that market. Nokia doesn't seem to supply carrier-locked in phones as RIM and Apple is, and appearently this is what the US consumer wants (w - t - f? I still don't get how anyone would want this... On the other hand I'm a stupid swede buying phones without a sim lock...).

Only thing in the quarterly report worrying is how bad NSN seems to go, but well.. I doubt Nokia Mobile/Handset business is going to die because of this anytime soon
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Rauha is offline Rauha
2009-10-15 , 21:07
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#38
Originally Posted by DaveP1 View Post
For a good analysis, see:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-30686_3-10...g=2547-1_3-0-5
It doesn't even mention the huge problems Nokia Siemens Networks is facing. NSN is about third of Nokia's total business and it wasn't doing terribly well even before recession. The cluster**** situation that NSN is facing now is an actual real threat to Nokia as a whole, not the North American smartphone market where Nokia has hardly anything to lose to beging with.
Last edited by Rauha; 2009-10-15 at 21:09.
 

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DaveP1 is offline DaveP1
2009-10-15 , 21:26
Posts: 607 | Thanked: 450 times | Joined on Sep 2009 @ Washington, DC
#39
Originally Posted by Rauha View Post
It doesn't even mention the huge problems Nokia Siemens Networks is facing. NSN is about third of Nokia's total business and it wasn't doing terribly well even before recession. The cluster**** situation that NSN is facing now is an actual real threat to Nokia as a whole, not the North American smartphone market where Nokia has hardly anything to lose to beging with.
I blame it on coining the term solutioneering.

http://www.nokiasiemensnetworks.com/solutioneering
 

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Rushmore is offline Rushmore
2009-10-16 , 02:36
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#40
Originally Posted by DaveP1 View Post
Blaming everything on the US press sounds incredibly like the Bush administration. The numbers come from the Nokia press release. Nokia estimates that their market share in the smartphone market is at 35% which is down from 41% last year. As SubCore points out this was neither unknown nor unexpected.

http://www.nokia.com/results/Nokia_results2009Q3e.pdf

As far as getting rich, kalle, you should have jumped in back in March when Nokia dropped to under 9 (on the New York Exchange). It opened today almost $2 lower at $13.83 but it seems to have stabilized for now.
Actually, Bush was one of the most hands-off presidents in regards to the press. So was Bush Sr and Reagan. On the other hand, Carter, Clinton and now Obama were and are press manipulators and chronic whiners.

Obama and his elitist cronies remind me more of the bad guys in V- for Vendetta.
 

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