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Gorgon is offline Gorgon
2009-10-28 , 13:25
Posts: 99 | Thanked: 28 times | Joined on Jun 2008 @ Philadelphia, PA
#51
Originally Posted by danramos View Post
...modular babble...
Modularity adds costs in so many ways that nobody is winning. The cost of a modular platform WITHOUT the radio would cost as much of not more than the current price of the N900 with the radios included. You have to add bulk to the device to provide the mechanical ability to add the module to the device, the device itself needs certification from the FCC, ETSI, SAR, etc, as well as the device itself. Now instead of doing the certification on a single device, you now have to certify the device and each module separately. Do you plan on having a modular antenna system as well? The antenna design for each module will be different, certification will need to be done with the appropriate antennas for each band. You're not embedding the antenna into the radio module since this will likely be too small to allow an adequate element to radiate sufficiently.

Have you seen GSM modules? You can get a GSM module off the shelf that is roughly half the size of my Nokia E71. This is HUGE compared to the device you intend to use it with. Surely Nokia would make this as small as possible, but it's still a separate assembly that needs to be packaged to protect the circuitry and that add bulk, no matter how you slice.

Now you've got to set up separate manufacturing space for each module plus the device itself for test and calibration. You're adding to number of tests and test times by testing everything separately versus testing a single device.

Once you get through all that now you have the customer to deal with. Can you guarantee that the module will be placed correctly, having optimal contact to provide the best performance of the radio? Is the antenna connector robust enough to always provide optimal RF match?

You haven't decreased inventory at all, you've increased it. Instead of a single device with cellular radio, you now stock the device, multiple radio modules and maybe an antenna modules. Then you have to design packaging for each of your plug-ins as well. At the end of the day, nobody is paying less for a product such as that, and if Nokia were to product it you'd likely be saying "man, that thing is freakin' expensive, it would have been cheaper just to drop the UMTS radios on the PCB"... Exactly!
 

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salem is offline salem
2009-10-28 , 13:26
Posts: 6 | Thanked: 0 times | Joined on Oct 2009
#52
Just wanted to add my voice as another customer who would like a 850/1900 band N900 phone. Maybe another version in the near future to support it? I would definitely love to develop on maemo but I don't see the point in purchasing a device if I can't use it on my network's 3G
 
texaslabrat is offline texaslabrat
2009-10-28 , 16:36
Posts: 271 | Thanked: 220 times | Joined on Sep 2009
#53
Originally Posted by danramos View Post
I'm not sure that Nokia's phones have been the raging success with either the average joe or otherwise, the last time I checked. Can you check the numbers? I thought that Nokia lost marketshare in the period since the internet tablets were around--so it's probably not the just tablets' fault.
Sure I can check the numbers...market share of over 40% worldwide for celluar phones. I'd say that was pretty popular. Versus a relative pittance of internet tablets (sans celluar stack) sold world wide.

Near as I can tell, this whole new market that Nokia just about created and led (the Internet Tablet) is something for which they could have continued to pioneer--and it appears to be the trend you're seeing with several competitors that have popped up recently (Pandora, Archos 5 Internet Tablet, ODROID, etc.).
Yep, they could have..but instead decided they wanted to create a mainstream cellular device. You don't want a mainstream cellular device. That's cool..so perhaps the N900 isn't for you and you should look at the alternatives you listed. It's for me, however...and for a LOT of other people precisely BECAUSE it has an included cellular stack.

Instead, they've relegated the N900 to another iPhone wannabe. That'll be a raging success in the "mass market" alright. :P Treat it like the openly expandable, portable general computing device that it should be and it'll do better than the iPhone wannabe that it seems poised to be.
And a more expensive (modular) version would be even more popular how? Nothing like a $1000 tablet with a $300 available cellular upgrade to spur market uptake

I also don't buy the soldered battery argument. NOTHING excuses a soldered-in battery.. not size, not weight, not anything. Cell-phone batteries are thin enough and last well enough not to use that sorry excuse to charge people money to swap out a battery and make sure there's no third party market or competition.
Buy it or not....acceptable or not...the fact remains that it exists in the Apple products and it exists primarily due to cost concerns. Your opinion does not change the reality of the situation, however justified it might be.


Seems to me a company with Nokia's size and experience should have the resources and the intelligence to be able to make a small module that could be used across many devices to support a carrier.
Sure they could...but as has been repeatedly explained to you, it would wind up costing MORE than having everything integrated. Not to mention it would necessarily be even larger due to the space wasted with the modular connectors versus having chips soldered to a PCB. Sure..sign me up for N900-A aka "the brick"...bigger, more expensive, and doesn't provide a performance benefit. That'll be a best-seller for sure!

I remember hanging around people in Silicon Valley, back when I lived in Santa Clara in the late 90's and early 2000's, that used to build their own cell phones. I'm not sure if these are useful for your interests:
http://www.opencircuits.com/Open_Mob...ts#GSM_modules
Let me know when they get all of the functionality and performance of the N900 in the same form factor for less money spent

You might even want to take a look around the whole wiki for interesting project resources and information.
I'm sure there are plenty of interesting resources and information...that doesn't change the reality of the manufacturing process of consumer electronics.
Last edited by texaslabrat; 2009-10-28 at 16:44.
 

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JD2010 is offline JD2010
2009-11-03 , 14:35
Posts: 315 | Thanked: 64 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Montreal, canada
#54
there is maybe a way by flashing the N900 to change the frequency so it might be usable 3g for AT&T or Canada. Like they do for other cell

http://cellphoneforums.net/nokia/t30...62-1661-a.html

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/forum...ad.php?t=87744

maybe someone will find a way
 
Bruce is offline Bruce
2009-11-03 , 20:21
Posts: 176 | Thanked: 56 times | Joined on Oct 2009
#55
Originally Posted by JD2010 View Post
there is maybe a way by flashing the N900 to change the frequency so it might be usable 3g for AT&T or Canada. Like they do for other cell
Flashing should not change the frequency. The frequency is a matter of the antennas and tuners inside the phone.

I believe the quad band GSM / GPRS / EDGE radio and tri band WCDMA radio inside the N900 are separate.
 
Johnx's Avatar
Johnx is offline Johnx
2009-11-04 , 08:02
Posts: 643 | Thanked: 628 times | Joined on Mar 2007 @ Seattle (or thereabouts)
#56
@JD2010: I just read those threads and it seems the consensus was that it's impossible to change the frequency by flashing the phone. Why do you think it would be possible to do on the N900 when it's not possible on other phones?
To stretch an analogy a bit, that'd be like changing a car from right hand drive to left hand drive by flashing the ECU.
 
les_garten is offline les_garten
2009-11-04 , 08:09
Posts: 1,283 | Thanked: 370 times | Joined on Sep 2009 @ South Florida
#57
Originally Posted by Johnx View Post
@JD2010: I just read those threads and it seems the consensus was that it's impossible to change the frequency by flashing the phone. Why do you think it would be possible to do on the N900 when it's not possible on other phones?
To stretch an analogy a bit, that'd be like changing a car from right hand drive to left hand drive by flashing the ECU.
I think there are some CDMA phones that were flashed to turn on some Freqs and that's where it's coming from.
 
titan is offline titan
2009-11-04 , 08:38
Posts: 946 | Thanked: 1,650 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Germany
#58
Are the frequency bands really a hardware and not a firmware/certification issue?
I mean are the antennas for 850/1900 that different from 900/1700/2100? Any RF engineer who could explain that, around?
 
Fargus's Avatar
Fargus is offline Fargus
2009-11-04 , 08:43
Posts: 1,217 | Thanked: 446 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Bedfordshire, UK
#59
Originally Posted by titan View Post
Are the frequency bands really a hardware and not a firmware/certification issue?
I mean are the antennas for 850/1900 that different from 900/1700/2100? Any RF engineer who could explain that, around?
Yep they are. A quick search on Wikipedia will explain the basics to you. The length of the antenna is basically linked to the frequency range that will work (wavelength). Frequency has to be generated using a carrier frequency based on clock cycles, only so many multipliers on a base cycle so that is definately a chipset design limitation.
 

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Arrancamos is offline Arrancamos
2009-11-06 , 05:18
Posts: 154 | Thanked: 33 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Lima-Perú
#60
...and... where is Peter reply!!??

PEDRO: Just put that chip or set the BIOS option on on n900 in order to support WCDMA 850/1900. and... wualaaaaaa

That is not a big deal for them, the technology exist.
 
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