Bugzilla: is there a walk-thru somewhere? - Page 9 - maemo.org

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	Andre Klapper	2009-11-23 , 09:57
	Posts: 1,665 \| Thanked: 1,649 times \| Joined on Jun 2008 @ Praha, Czech Republic	#81

Originally Posted by RevdKathy

A few small suggestions: the bug writing guide ought to be the first link on the front page of Bugzilla.

In fact, add two lines into your guidelines:

"If you are unsure of anything, leave it blank"

"If more information is needed, you will be contacted by the bug-squad"

And put the bug-guide as the FIRST linkie you see on Bugzilla, and I will shut the f*uck up about it. (Though I would like to see 'Commit' change - makes me think I'm sending my bug to a mental institution. Can we have 'Engage' or 'make it so' instead?)

Good points. As written here before I'd prefer to go with "Save changes" instead of "Commit".

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	zerojay	2009-11-23 , 11:38
	Posts: 2,669 \| Thanked: 2,555 times \| Joined on Apr 2007	#82

I'm still waiting for answers to my questions from krisse and silvermountain... you know, something actually constructive.

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	Texrat	2009-11-24 , 17:49
	Posts: 11,700 \| Thanked: 10,045 times \| Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA	#83

Regular users need a wizard approach. Plain and simple. They need forms backed by an expert system that guides them through the bug reporting process, limiting them to a path dictated by their answers to standard questions. That data is collected and autopopulated into a new bug report that the user never has to see (unless they choose).

Such a system makes it absurdly easy to prevent duplicate reports. When at some point the expert system realizes that the user's report matches an existing bug, it then presents the user with a new recourse: voting on the existing bug (or exiting-- and I would insist on an "Are you sure?" at that point!).

Sooo... how possible is this?

Note: putting this on the devices is a true win.

EDIT: oops, I realize I just created a Brainstorm...

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Last edited by Texrat; 2009-11-24 at 17:52.

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	Texrat	2009-11-24 , 18:01
	Posts: 11,700 \| Thanked: 10,045 times \| Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA	#84

Originally Posted by silvermountain

The first one is accurate and I fully stand behind it: The maemo development community IS too small to both develop as welll as support the applications on the platform. We are seeing more and more apps being left un-supported and never 'finished' (see other thread for definition of 'finished').

It is completely inaccurate and if you're standing behind such a gross fallacy one has to question your reasoning on other positions (such as the ironically elitist misrepresentation of GeneralAntille's quote you so stubbornly and arrogantly refuse to reconsider).

To abuse an old saying, "size doesn't matter". Some of the best, completed and most useful apps were created and maintained by single developers or very small teams. You are committing a huge error in impugning an entire community for the acts of cowboy coders.

I'd suggest you hop off your self-erected pedestal and rethink your approach to this forum and especially the longstanding members, but something tells me more irony would just result...

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	Andre Klapper	2009-11-24 , 18:02
	Posts: 1,665 \| Thanked: 1,649 times \| Joined on Jun 2008 @ Praha, Czech Republic	#85

Texrat: How would this work in case of followup questions to the reporter?

It sounds lovely and works for crashers, but for any other tickets it would need logic to identify key words used in the report (delet{e,ing}, remov{e,ing}) and check those against the bug database server, probably also including duplicate amounts (probabilities etc).
I wonder if something like this exists. At least nothing comes to my mind right now.

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	Texrat	2009-11-24 , 18:04
	Posts: 11,700 \| Thanked: 10,045 times \| Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA	#86

Originally Posted by Andre Klapper

Texrat: How would this work in case of followup questions to the reporter?

It sounds lovely and works for crashers, but for any other tickets it would need logic to identify key words used in the report (delet{e,ing}, remov{e,ing}) and check those against the bug database server, probably also including duplicate amounts (probabilities etc).
I wonder if something like this exists. At least nothing comes to my mind right now.

Hey, I just kicked off the front-end...

And I can see this definitely requires a formal Brainstorm, Andre. I'll take care of that and make sure you're invited my friend.

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	RevdKathy	2009-11-24 , 19:53
	Posts: 2,173 \| Thanked: 2,678 times \| Joined on Oct 2009 @ Cornwall, UK	#87

Originally Posted by Texrat

Hey, I just kicked off the front-end...

And I can see this definitely requires a formal Brainstorm, Andre. I'll take care of that and make sure you're invited my friend.

If this can be made to work it would be perfect. (Though I do see the difficulties).

Please may I join in as Official tester of words?

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	krisse	2009-11-25 , 01:47
	Posts: 1,540 \| Thanked: 1,045 times \| Joined on Feb 2007	#88

Originally Posted by Texrat

Regular users need a wizard approach. Plain and simple. They need forms backed by an expert system that guides them through the bug reporting process, limiting them to a path dictated by their answers to standard questions. That data is collected and autopopulated into a new bug report that the user never has to see (unless they choose).

Yup, definitely.

A "Choose your own adventure" approach to bug reporting.

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	krisse	2009-11-25 , 01:50
	Posts: 1,540 \| Thanked: 1,045 times \| Joined on Feb 2007	#89

Originally Posted by Andre Klapper

I think what was said here about 95% of the end users is that many people simply will not have the involvement. They buy the N900 product and are not interested in what exact platform runs on the N900, that there is a community, a forum, or that they can report bugs. And that's their personal freedom (though they miss some fun in my opinion).

It's very simple:

1. I ran a site aimed at beginners.

2. Most of the communications I got from those users were bug reports of one kind or another (they would describe a situation where their device didn't work as expected).

3. These reports, informal and untechnical as they were, provide potentially valuable data about problems faced by ordinary users, either actual bugs, or design flaws which caused misconfiguration ("design bugs" in effect).

4. How do we collect this data if Bugzilla isn't up to the job?

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	krisse	2009-11-25 , 01:55
	Posts: 1,540 \| Thanked: 1,045 times \| Joined on Feb 2007	#90

Originally Posted by zerojay

Bug reporting is one of those things that's a little scary at first, but just do it a few times and you get the hang of things.

That's a hobbyist approach where there's a commitment to a particular platform, and a willingness to put at least a little effort into learning it.

Ordinary users are not hobbyists, they don't want to go through anything scary. Anything scary, and they'll be put off using that platform in favour of something else. This is a big reason why Linux platforms tend to suffer, they are much better than they used to be but still has too many of these scary words or scary situations, and people go scuttling back to the familiar world of MS Windows.